I was supposed to get divorced tomorrow...!

[jaguilar]

Hey Dave,

Sandi is right. When I spoke to my IL's, my W flipped out. She thought I was trying to get her in trouble. I just wanted to talk about me and the kids. I wsan't there to "rat" her out.

Anyway, my MIL is good to me, she still calls me son and makes me lots of tortillas.

[1853dave]

Hi everyone -

Yes, I am keenly aware of the MIL situation. I have read this elsewhere on the site too.

I doubt she (W) will find out anytime soon. She isn't speaking to her mother right now anyway, and MIL knows that it would probably bother the W that I visited her - although, she has no problem when I take the kids there with me. I wouldn't lie about visiting her if my W asked me, but I won't advertise it either.

Interstingly, we only talked a little bit about my situation - we spent most of the time watching PBS and discussing other stuff.

Thanks for jumping in Sandi - I expect up and down days, because I have been going through that cycle... I think there have been fewer down days lately - maybe I am just not reacting to them like I used to. I am finding that if I keep myself in a good mood, regardless if things don't quite go my way, that my W seems happier also. For instance, if we depart on a good note, isn't it better than departing on a more somber, less happy note, regardless if my day with the kids has been cut short or not? In other words, even if I feel short-changed, I still need to make that effort to appear ok with it all - so that the next contact I have with her will be fresh and pleasant, with no "leftovers".

I've gotten to the point where if nothing bad happens, then it is a good day. If something actually good happens, then that's a bonus!

I hope we all have a good day today!

[1853dave]

Oh, and as for being "mysterious" - or vague - and not giving play by plays... I'm getting better at that, I think. at least I am making a more conscious effort not to divulge everything about what I am doing. This echos the advice from my DB counselor.

Also being less available... I generally let her call me, except rarely, when I need to initiate the call due to kid stuff.

I find when I am out I come across some of the neighbors at times - like when I am out running, or with the kids having a good time. I bet some of this feedback will make its way to her. Might have the side effect of showing her that I am out doing my thing, not sitting around moping. Just a thought.

[fb2]

" I bet some of this feedback will make its way to her. Might have the side effect of showing her that I am out doing my thing ..."

Sounds like you are doing well. But I detect you are still beholden to her. Do not expect her to want back despite all you are doing - it seldom happens so do it only for your own well being. A part of what you are doing that involves interacting with her (keeping boundaries, etc.) regarding the kids is also for your own well being. There is the danger of trying to do or say things to impress her which will invariably lead to disappointment or to hurting you.

[1853dave]

fb2,

Yes, I am aware of that, but I'm trying to distance. I admit, I am beholden to her - isn't that why we are here? If we truly didn't care at all, why would be divorce-bust?

But, your point is taken, and I already know this. So, I am doing what I can, with the hopes that it yields a good result in the R.

I have had some people ask me why I bother trying. Only those of us willing to try know the answer to that.

So, I know what you are telling me - do things for myself, not for her. I agree, and have been doing things with that in mind....but a nice side effect would be that she notices and shows interest. That's all I'm saying.

A better me would hopefully result in a better M.

[fb2]

And don't forget to work on your relationship with God and other people around you - you are still in control of that. However you will hear all sorts of (often quite silly) opinions from people - you will ultimately need to listen to what your own heart is telling you and then use your brain to follow your heart.

[1853dave]

" And don't forget to work on your relationship with God and other people around you - you are still in control of that. However you will hear all sorts of (often quite silly) opinions from people - you will ultimately need to listen to what your own heart is telling you and then use your brain to follow your heart. "

Exactly. I've become rather picky who I share with, because so many others have been through the adversarial divorces, and others I think actually like to be on the sidelines, witnessing the action. Adds to the gossip.

[1853dave]

Well...another day, and I don't know if I did ok or not.

Sorry for the long post, but there's a lot to say...

W and D9 have a girl scout event in the mountains this weekend, and I agreed to have D4 during that time. This was in the works for over a month. When she first approached me on it, she said that I could stay in the condo (the one we own) with D4 and the dog.
Well, at the beginning of this month, I FINALLY got my own place - a month to month rental. As you may recall, I was greeted with a restraining order back in November, and I have stayed in 5 different places for 6 months. The RO was terminated by the W at the end of January, and I have been DB'ing my butt off ever since. Due to the wonderfully unfair temp financial orders that the court decided, I have about $750 a month to live on... So, long story short, I have been working hard to save enough money to get a place for the summer...

So, today W calls me and says that she would like me and D4 to stay at my own place...and the dog too. I told her that might be ok, but I want a key to the condo in case we need something. "Like what?" she asks. I didn't have anything particular in mind, but there are all of D4's toys, clothes, DVD movies, etc. there. She said she pack everything we'd need. I told her that wasn't the point - all of my stuff is there too. She again asked what I would need. I again said I didn't plan to need anything, but in reality I want the ability to have access while she and D9 are out of town. She said "that is my home, and I am not comfortable with you there going through my stuff." What?!? I told her I will not "go through her stuff" (whatever she feels her stuff is). This went on a bit, so I then told her that I have every legal right to that condo because as it sits right now, I am STILL the owner of that condo. She tried but could not argue that point. I told her that I was being supportive and giving her space by not being there, and by getting my own place, but I was in no manner "handing over the condo". She said she'd think about giving me the key. I told her there was nothing really to think about. The condo is mine, and I have legal right to access and to hold a key while she is out of town. She then offered that maybe a neighbor could hold the key - and I said no - I will not go crawling to a neighbor on my hands and knees because I am not trustworthy. That is still MY (our) condo. The conversation then turned...and I know it wasn't necessarily in the DB model, but I tried my best to keep the tone matter of fact, yet compassionate. I told her that I know that she still wants out, and I accept that she feels that way. I reminded her that I don't want the divorce (and she acknowledged that), and the kids certainly don't want it, and both families do not want to see us split. I told her of how I never intended to hurt her if I did - I thought we had the best family ever, and I was always so committed to the family. I provided, kept a nice condo, fixed the cars, spent copious time with the kids, took care of myself, did family things...I thought I was doing everything right. I hear the ladies at work complain about their husbands, and I always took mental notes - about sloppiness, not providing for the family, not keeping the cars running, not playing with the kids, not helping around the house, or fixing things, or taking care of the kids so that W could study / go running / do whatever... I also never had any desire to lie or cheat on her - that was just never in my interest - I was always happy with her. I told her that she might remember that I called her "my breath of fresh air..."
I told her that I thought many of our problems have stemmed from poor perceptions and poor communications. She said she "tried everything to get through to (me)" (sound familiar, DB readers???) - and I told her that she probably didn't... That upset her, saying that I was blaming her for everything now. I took it back, and redefined what I was saying - that I do NOT blame her - I blame US. How we were not efficient communicators with eachother...how we fell into a VERY common trap, etc... I asked her if she thinks we've been communicating better lately, and she immediately answered "Yes..." I asked her if she has seen some real changes in me, and again she immediately answered "Yes." I know this does not go with the DB guidelines, and I was aware of this as I was saying it. But, for some reason, I felt a need to air it.
I told her how the Restraining Order back in Nov was a real shock for me. Yet, I took the time to research what in the world happened to us. I took some classes in communications, in character, and in conflict resolution. I have read several relationship books (including DB and DR, but I didn't tell her titles...). I have sought counseling, and advice from those in the know.. And, I continue to do these things. I told her that once I discovered what happened to us, that it was a very common pattern in married couples, that I was relieved, as I knew that there must be a solution. I have been working on these improvements ever since. I also told her that I am making these improvements for myself, because I want to improve my relationships with everyone - and while it probably won't make a difference in her decison to stay or go - and I know that - but it will improve my relationships with my kids, family, coworkers, people in public, and any other future companion in my life. And, regardless of how this turns out, I still plan to continue on these improvements.
At some point in there was some talk of D, and I told her that it is likely not to go as clean and smooth as she anticipates. By that, I told her, I meant it would be not due to anything I would do - it's just the natural fallout of divorce. In my first D, it was amicable, and we only used an atty to run the final paperwork for us. The XW then changed her name and left the state, never to be seen again. Even so, it was still very difficult to recover from the entire thing. And, in comparison, that was an "easy" divorce! In our case, I told her, the dynamics are MUCH different - especially with the kids. We will be in each other's lives forever. There is no "go your separate ways" in our sitch. That was one reason I was doing all I could do... by giving her the space she needed, and helping where I could, and being accommodating....and working on myself. Even if it ended in a D, I would be better for it all, and I'd know that I did my very best for all of us.
W was very quiet the entire time. Entire time. I could tell she was listening, because she was not arguing. This has been the first time I was really able to open up to her. I was careful not to point fingers, or assign blame...if there was any, I included myself in it too. While I accepted some blame for myself, I was careful not to isolate her in blame. I think I did all of this in a way where she did not feel threatened.
Somewhat surprisingly, the conversation then ended on a reasonably good note.
A few hours later, I met the family in town because D9 had a Girl Scout event, so I again had D4 for the evening. We did the usual of going to the playground at the mall, and after girl scouts D9 and W showed up, and visited and played a bit. W was friendly as always, as though nothing was wrong (!) - so I'm guessing she didn't feel attacked by me. We all walked back to the cars, and said our friendly goodbyes....

So, those were the day's events. I don't know if I blew it or not... I think speaking my peace was perhaps a 180...I was not confrontational, I was somewhat apologetic, and I was showing compassion and honesty as well as I could in this situation. Even after all of this, she was still comfortable being with me this evening. Had we more time, we would have had more interaction before they left for the night, but it was truly getting late.

Well, at least it all ended on a good note, and there seemed to be no hurt feelings. I don't feel as though this was a bad event today... It happened, right or wrong. Maybe she needed to hear some of the things from my heart. Now I'll shut up and see what happens. I will not belabor any point already made.

I'm thinking I might just give in and not make a big deal about the key....just in the interest of not making things controversial. I think today I made my point in the conversation...

Any thoughts?

[fb2]

Dave, Looks like she's still using you as a babysitter when convenient for her, calling all the shots and you are following orders and sucking up like a stray puppy dog. Has D been filed by her? What about temporary custody? Is it all up to her when you can see the girls? Can you find ways to establish some boundaries without getting confrontational, unpleasant or losing your dignity?

[1853dave]

Spoke to DB counselor today. Plan to meet with her next week - maybe we'll know what the fallout from yesterday's conversation will be by then.

She thought that perhaps I did some 180's in the conversation. The fact that I laid things out like I did. The way I delivered. They way I did not blame her, or corner her in any way. So, she thought I handled the conversation in a DBing sort of tone. She thinks that I probably did no harm, and maybe even some good. I sure hope so.

Hopefully, this will give her (W) some things to think about this weekend...

Tomorrow I pick up D4 around 3pm for the weekend. I look forward to it, and we will have a great time. That little girl is such a clown, and really keeps me laughing! She is such a doll...

I still don't know about the "key" issue... I think I will just drop it for now. Fighting over it tomorrow afternoon before they leave would just not be appropriate.

D9 is very excited about the weekend, as is W. I'm happy for them. I wish I could go too!