The fact that you're looking back on this latest exchange in a pretty positive frame of mind is good is it not? It sounds as if you did all the things you wanted to do and achieve with and for your kids...and fulfilled their expectations in terms of what they're looking to you for - ie their Dad- a level of normality - being fed, having you play with them, being read to, showered...
Could it be though that you're still looking to your W for a level of validation and respect that she's simply not going to give...and why should she?
After all, when you strip out the fact that you stepped in and took the kids this afternoon, there's nothing that you have done that she doesn't do day-in-day-out...you were simply being a Daddy, doing things that a Daddy (or maybe Dad to your D!) does...
Did you enjoy it?
Mark -I've said this higher up in your thread - your further advancement in terms of being a father is likely going to realised by you getting your head round the responsibilities of that role and taking them on come rain or shine; regardless of your W's actions or lack of them -always, always being there for your kids and ensuring that you always carry through...
Your kids need consistency in their lives...they can deal with a lot but only if they can rely on you to be a parent, to love and care for them -in the way that you did this afternoon.
Mark - I know all too well the want / need to become "SuperDad" in an attempt to prove your worth to your W...I've been there and honestly got drawers full of T-shirts!
And also I know all too well how complicated and challenging it is to unpick a situation in your own mind where you are are "getting it" in relation your role as a father but not seeing any results or warming from your W.
Let me pose you a rhetorical question...now you are "getting it" and seeing results and getting enjoyment /satisfaction from your relationship with your kids in a way that was not there before (and doing a great job IMO!) - you wouldn't give that up or compromise that would you? Regardless of the direction your R with your W takes.
Above -you said and asked:-
"We have had one week where there has been no confrontation and reasonable communication. I just feel so frustrated with this sitch, particularly as I know patience is not my forte. Should I continue DR, GAL, 180's etc, or try and force the issue and try and get her to admit to whatever is going on?"
This is more difficult and on this I can only give you an IMO view...as this is a conundrum which causes much debate on these boards -my view - is that you stay doing what you are doing -establish the fact that you are stepping up to your responsibilities and role as a father and get that established in your W's mind but at the same time find ways of establishing the fact that you respect yourself by continuing to "get a life" and that you are working on yourself through your new found way of dealing with life ...I cannot see what a challenge to your W would achieve...save to reinforce your W's views - whatever they may be...
Mark-I think this is the stage where those well worn but trusty words of "strength, honour, patience and integrity" come into play and also especially for your kids - "consistency and reliability" not to mention - "fun"!!!
I know you want to achieve everything yesterday (!)but it can't be done...
When you look at your sitch in those quiet moments in your new garden! might I suggest that one angle is to consider those within it which are least able to help themselves and to whom you have greatest responsibility. Its the most painful thing in the world to be rejected by a person who you thought loved you and a natural reaction to seek to right the wrongs and point out this and that, but you cannot "make" that happen -that has to be a choice. Choices can only be made out of free-will...
I also see that this is now a full conflict-free week (almost)- thats a tremendous achievement!
Blimey, I have got carried away with that! Sorry...
I know you feel conflicted with the advice on this board. BTW, I agree with GFI 100% and you did EXCELLENT by not getting reeled into an argument with W btw.
So this is what I think, it's only one person's two cents worth.
1) Your W is used to pattern of arguing with you. She was quite good at drawing you into a verbal battle, now you see the pattern and you've put a stop to it. Excellent. If you see it coming, then you can stop the destructive patterns.
2) Listen to me and GF12, you don't need your W's validation on being a good dad. Remember, pat yourself on the back. You make your own happiness. You've ticked off one box in your list - keep being a good dad. Now, make yourself happy by finding a job/career/calling you enjoy. It is NOT your W's job to make you happy, buddy. It's YOURS.
3) I feel that you are kind of an all or nothing kind of guy, that's why you have trouble with the advice people give you. You see things as, 'Do I have to go TOTALLY dark?' 'Do I have to anticipate ALL of my W's and my kids' needs?' 'Do I have to back down EVERY TIME my W is making a request?'
I will try to help you lead you away from that kind of thinking. Imagine you are making your now-famous roast chicken dinner. The recipe calls for salt, lemon, garlic. Would you put in a whole bottle of salt, a bushel of lemons and ten heads of garlic? No, you will probably experiment a little first with a little salt, juice of half a lemon and a few cloves of garlic. Each time you might adjust the recipe a little till you get the flavor just right.
That is what you need to do with DB. See what works with your W. Experiment a little bit. (Remember, your W's comment that you go overboard?) Do a little of this, a little of that. Monitor the results. Put it in a diary. Then you will see a pattern and this pattern will tell you what works and what doesn't.
Your W now is realizing that you are breaking your old marital pattern. You are stopping the destructive train. The next step, after awhile of no-fighting is to test the waters. Test to see if she is amenable to some positive interaction. You got to take it one step at a time. You are on a steam engine. It takes time to slow that train down. Let it come to a complete stop before you can reverse it. You can't do it all at once.
Sorry this post is all analogies but I am trying to paint a picture for you.
As for MLC, not MLC, hardline, softline etc. You know your W best. You probably have a sense of what would work and what would antagonize her to the point of no-return.
Me:39 H:40 S:9 D:7 First Bomb ONS:June 07 Second Bomb OW: March 08 Separated: March 08 M:15 yrs T:18 yrs H deep into A with OW Achieved ACCEPTANCE May 30, 09
Thank you both for your responses. The common thread to your posts is keep doing what I am doing for and with the children as they are the priority. PM, I understand about the validation of my W and you are right, I only initiate contact when I want to say goodnight to the children and nothing else. I have had so much negativity, conflict and pain to deal with that I am looking at any small grain of success to lift my mood, and the only ways at the moment are the happiness of my children and seeing/feeling my wife's actions/reactions to any interaction we have.
I know detachment, dropping the rope means taking control of your own life, but I believe if I want to re-kindle our relationship I have to monitor the DR methodology I am using as PM's analogy regarding 'roast chicken' stated, in other words experiment and see what works. I will journal my findings and tweak things where necessary, though I have to be careful in not crossing the 'doormat' line and I have to make sure I set boundaries. This is an area that concerns me because the next time an issue arises that I feel has crossed a personal boundary a conflict will ensue. I have to be able to make a stand so that I do not appear weak and unable to make a decision, irespective of what my wife thinks.
As GFI2 has also said I will continue to do what I am doing now, particularly as I am now having a lovely time with my children, and will continue to do so.
I will stop the negative thought pattern with my W and what she is doing as has been said many, many times before. I cannot control her so let her get on with whatever she is doing and move forward the best I can. You're both right in that this all takes time and I suppose if we have had a trouble-free week for the first time in 5 months, that is progress.
Thank you both, I appreciate your thoughts and views.
Mark
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
Update: My wifeh as rung me to ask(assume) I will pay the oustanding sum that is owed on the existing joint childrens tax credits. The amount accrues to a few thousand pounds, therefore I have told her that she is liable to pay 50/50 of the outstanding debt. I ignored two more attempts by her to call me on my mobile so that I could condemplate the best response to her request.
I have given my W �106,000 morally that I did not have to as there was no 'Deed of Consent' document which allows a partner to reclaim any monies that was brought into the relationship by a partner. This allows her to stay in the marital home with our children, but gives me a sum that is lower than I am entitled to by law.
She is now trying to morally state that because I earn more than her (even though she is living in the marital home I pay for) and I am out of work, should pay the whole amount of joint child maintenance. This is a boundary I am not crossing and I will stipulate she pays 50% of the outstanding bill. I have continually complied to her needs, but in this case I feel I will not be made to look as though I am going to pay yet another bill.
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
My wife called me this morning to say she was coming around with some food for my son who is staying this evening.
I believe she is really coming around to sort the money issue out which is stated above. She is saying the outstanding amount should mostly be paid by me because I earnt 5 times more than her over the period this money was paid. Therefore, in her eyes she feels I should pay the lions share of the debt.
As it was her decision to end the marriage this bill is a by-product of that decision as it is a joint childrens claim that needs to be paid in full before she can claim as a single parent.
My quandary is this - As a 'nice guy' I would probably pay a larger percentage of this bill. On the other hand do I say to her "I am sorry, but you need to pay half of this debt".
This is a moral dilemma for me and I do not know the best way to play it, as in my current mental state I still have problems fully detaching, therefore I am concerned about upsetting my wife. Should I do the right thing or is this a test by her to see what she can get away with. She has threatened to offset my monies from the sale of the house until my son is 18 if I procede with me saying she should pay half of the debt.
Please help as she is coming here in 1 hour and I need to know what is the best approach for me to set a boundary, or to negociate as a couple?
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
Well, she arrived and was in her usual miserable mood. She presented me with the debt in question and I said I would talk to the tax office to see what I could do.
She then gave me some photographs from our family holiday last year and she said "I don't know why I am giving you these, but I'm good like that". I have looked at the photos and now wish I hadn't as I am now in floods of tears looking at my children laughing, us playing together on the beach, all the good times we had together and this year I will not be there. Is she deliberately trying to upset me,(which she has) or is she so far removed from emotions she just thought she was making a nice gesture to me.
She carried on about the cost of the holiday coming for her and the children as though it was my fault it was costing her so much. She also challenged me saying I won't take the children on holiday just like.....she then mentioned two other fathers who have not over the years.
If I had been in a job I would have booked something for me and the children, but because of this I cannot. I now feel if I can take them somewhere it will be because my W said I should and my anticipation strategy falls short. She also wanted to attack my current arrangements with the children and said I wasn't commited to them enough. I ignored all of this.
Finally, she told me she was seeing her lawyer next week to finalise the financial settlement and when I move out of the family home for good. By this stage, which was no longer than 10 minutes I had had enough of this negativity and brought the meeting to a close. At no stage did she cross the door.
I feel absolutely awful with the onslaught I have just encountered. It is clear she is still very angry and I wonder if she was expecting more of a reaction from me. If she is getting exactly what she wants, why is she like this. It feels like she has to keep attacking me all the time, even after 5 months.
I cannot see any chance of us ever getting back together as she has still not wavered or shown any warmth towards me in all this time, it is attack, attack, attack.
Last edited by markhaving probs; 05/12/0908:32 AM.
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
Do you get 5 times the the profit from the sale of the house?
Get tough. Take care of yourself. Tell her politely, yet firmly that YOU HAVE DECIDED it is 50-50 on the debt and if she doesn't like that or agree with it then you push the blame onto your lawyer. ("It is out of my hands, I will have to talk to my lawyer")...
Mark, patience. You have only just begun true DB'ing for the past week. She has NOT seem enough of the new you to think of you differently. I have been at this almost a year and it still takes time. WAS see us in one certain way, intereact with us in one pattern. It takes time for them to change their actions too.
The photos are not deep. She just wanted you to look at some happy photos and are not meant to hurt. Moodiness is just how WAS' are. They are not happy people in general. If they were happy, then would not have to leave. Now that they have left, they feel they have to live with this decision but they don't like themselves. Look at her with compassion in this instance. Financials are an area where you have to fair to yourself and stand tough.
Me:39 H:40 S:9 D:7 First Bomb ONS:June 07 Second Bomb OW: March 08 Separated: March 08 M:15 yrs T:18 yrs H deep into A with OW Achieved ACCEPTANCE May 30, 09
I am really pleased you have posted. If you check out my other sitch regarding 'dropping the rope', gucci has posted something I would like you to read and I would be interested in what you think from a womans perspective.
The photos are very hard to deal with and I cannot bring myself to look at them at the moment. I am looking forward to my son coming over tonight and he is staying over which is great.
Last edited by markhaving probs; 05/12/0912:51 PM.
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
