Learning to Detach

[In Limbo]

KJ,

Know you're out of town, but wanted to just give you a post to have when you return! Welcome back! Hope your trip went well and you enjoyed your Mother's Day!

Take care!

[kjensen]

Thanks IL-
Got back late tonight. H and the girls picked me up at the airport. I hugged the girls then H and he sad "OW!"-his whole back was badly sunburned...I guess he's learning the hard way(I was always 'the nag' about sunscreen). H said he went for a 35 mile bike ride today(I so wanted to ask if he went alone, but didn't since the girls were in the car and didn't ask later even though I so badly wanted to!)-kind of miffed me though that he left the girls for 5 hours to bike(what if he got hurt on the highway?)..H is listening to a rap station on the radio-his "new favorite" its just weird...

So my trip went well, went to dinner with some colleagues and their spouses both nights...Walked around the San Diego Bay on my own/ate on my own.. I waffled between missing H and being angry at H during this trip. H had planned to be on this trip with me after he had his breakdown in Feb. and broke up with OW. H changed the plane tickets from his/OW names to his/my name, then after he restarted the A, he couldn't decide if he was comfortable going to San Diego with me or not. I accidentally said "I love you" at the end of a phone conversation with him. I had called to let him know I arrived safely..

H and the girls had flowers for me for Mother's Day, which was sweet-no one signed the card :-).

Just kind of melancholy about everything. Wanted to be missed by H(I know-that is an expectation I shouldn't have had)..but I don't think I was. Oh Well..one day at a time, for a long time to come!

[D Money]

Happy Mother's Day K!

I'm sure deep down inside somewhere your H missed you but try not to have expectations that he's going to show you or tell you.

[kjensen]

Thanks D!
The girls made me a lovely breakfast. H called around 10am to wish me a Happy Mother's Day-while we were on the phone he took a call from a friend to workout today..He asked what we girls were doing and I said we had no plans and thought maybe he wanted to do something with us, but no..just a Mother's Day wish..kind of felt weird..just kind of sad that we are so much more distant than we were when we had our active listening talk last week.

[D Money]

This is my weekend to have the kids and I offered my wife to have the kids for Mother's Day and she declined. I sent her a text this morning wishing her a Happy Mother's Day. No response. She wants absolutely nothing to do with me. Some days it's discouraging.

[fisherman]

This is my weekend to have the kids and I offered my wife to have the kids for Mother's Day and she declined. I sent her a text this morning wishing her a Happy Mother's Day. No response. She wants absolutely nothing to do with me. Some days it's discouraging.

I think it's guilt, but who knows for sure. Mine was only going to take them for four hours at first. I kept offering the day and night. She kept them until 7pm. When offered the whole night she said the court handbook says until 8pm. I didn't argue, I'll take them anytime I can.

If yours is anything like mine they become very selfconcious about parenting and being a good mother.

[kjensen]

D-Funny you should mention your wife declining the kids today. I was thinking about what to do for Father's Day with my H. I'm thinking the girls are old enough that maybe they can guide the outcome. Its sad for the kids when the MLCer retracts from their parental duties.

Trapt and D-your kids will be better for the love and care you are showing them while their mothers aren't able to be there for them. I suspect as the MLCer comes back to reality there is a lot of guilt they have to deal with regarding their distance from their children.

H still hasn't told his family about our separation. H's mother called to wish me a happy mother's day this afternoon-caught me off guard-I haven't talked to her since Christmas. After we talked a bit, I said H wasn't here and I would have him call her-she said H already had---awkward..Made me kind of angry. I emailed H to let him know I talked to his mother. I also mentionned something I've been tinking about alot-that the more I thought about our active listening conversation on Monday that I felt differently about my initial response to H not feeling he could make things 'right'. I had responded to H that I didn't expect things to be righted, but now that I really had time to thnk more on it I felt that there are actually things that could be done to make our situtation more 'right'.

H called and we had a phone conversation which got slightly tense(H wasn't having a great day to begin with-and neither was I) but I got off the phone with a positive note. H later responded to my email via email..Read some of the things I said in a negative light. I tried clarifying with a very positive and supportive email..I realize now I should have just never contacted H today via email..Too late. I don't think any real harm will come of our communication, but I don't think the positive understanding I was hoping for occurred.

The kids and I went out for dinner and the girls got into a fight about who's turn it was to mow the grass(and therefore make extra money)-then the kitchen sink entered the argument! Kind of a bummer. I'm trying to teach my D11 how to do active listening, since she has the most difficulty communicating effectively with her sister and myself...

So today I was calm and nonreactive with my kids and hopefully got some positive messages across, but failed to do as well with H, at least that how it seems right now. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day..this one had some sucky parts!

[In Limbo]

H is listening to a rap station on the radio-his "new favorite" its just weird...

Isn't it funny how even their tastes in music change in MLC? Same with my H, suddenly he's listening to hip hop and dance stuff.

I know it had to be hard to hold your tongue about the 5 hour bike ride as a W and as a mom. Good job!

It's hard to retrain your brain not to say ILY. I find it especially so at the end of phone calls. It's like an automatic response. I've tried to just replace mine with several other different responses, but still slip up sometimes. Don't sweat it.

Hang in there and try to take care of yourself this week. One day at a time is right!

[kjensen]

Had lunch at home with H. Went OK. Somehow the conversation got into seeing older men(50+) in board shorts/t shirts and Vans..nothing we usually see here in Colorado, but I noticed a lot in San Diego. H said he always wanted to dress like that-he thought it was cool. ..So now he's into HipHop/Rap music, clothing styles for SoCal guys..he'd thinking of giving up golf.

Just a lot of weird lifestyle 'trying on" going on lately. Not alot of mention of the OW..I did ask if he went biking on Saturday alone and he snapped that he'd already answered that( How could he when I specifically never asked until this afternoon? What reality is he living in?)..so it was tense/quiet for a minute or so..then we switched subjects.

I asked H if he still wanted to cook together sometime(something his therapist had suggested we do once a week long ago..)-he said he hadn't really thought about it but was game. So we'll see if these activities(supposed to have a 'fun' dinner once a week after communication class and talk once a week as homework for this class)maintain our 'friendship' and ease the tension that crops up between us periodically...

Onward and onward..and onward...

[kjensen]

Had communication class tonight. Somehow in one of our exercises we got off tangent and the word divorce was brought up (in response to what would we do if we both wanted to grow in different/noncompatible directions). H got uncomfortable and called a time-out(which is what we were taught to do). We started talking about it on the way home..the discussion 'escalated'-a big "no no".. So at the end H said "I can't do this anymore"..we calmed down a bit after that and he said we could talk tomorrow..
I understand how he hates conflict and lumps all of our 'negative' conversations together and makes statemnts like "we always fight" even though in reality we don't..Its just when he says these type of statements I feel very hopeless and wonder if I should just give up. I don't want to give up, but going through this for years seems unrealistic and miserable.

Are there any veterans reading this that can help me get perspective? When a MLCer says these 'hopeless' statements, when/how do you know when they truly mean them versus when they are just spouting off frusration and anger? What tricks have people used to separate the negativity from the spouse?

I'm having a hard time with this communication (H even brought up that when we talk about the OW and D, things will get even tougher-he brought up those topics) about the 'taboo' topics and DBing. I think I've lost my sense of how to DB in this situation. In order to honestly commnicate as we are supposed to(and it worked the first time wonderfully), I can't just validate. I need to share and be honest. When we do the active listening well things are wonderful and we both feel more connected, but so far we've digressed just as much as we've succeeded.

I guess the fact that H said we could talk about things tomorrow, either the same topic or a different 'hot topic'-his words- is positive. ???

In our class practice conversation we talked our prior discussion about making things more 'right' in our relationship. I asked H if when he said he didn't know how to 'right' things if I should take from that that he wanted to 'right' things b/c I didn't want to assume. He said that was difficult and he didn't know.

If he doesn't want to make things 'right' then I see no point in continuing. There isn't a way to overcome an A, dishonesty, broken-trust..etc without trying to make amends and work on a relationship. I can't connect this man who might not want to make things 'right' with the man who said he felt from the bottom of his heart that we would always be friends and that is what he wanted. Is that a conflicted MLCer or a man who can't admit he's given up and just say he wants out?

Any thoughts/help or advice are extremely appreciated b/c I'm feeling pretty hopeless after tonight and I'm scared to remain hopeful.