I hear you when you say it is about Dan, not about us. He does need individual counseling. He needs to figure out why he wakes up every day wanting to die (his words), why he has given up any chance of ever being happy (his words), etc.
The thing is, if he was happy with his lifestyle, I don't think he would feel those things. He might feel a lot of guilt for marrying me and bringing kids into the situation, but he wouldn't feel those other extremes, IMO.
And I know you are not religious, Ali, so I don't think we can see this the same way. I cannot say, "Ok, you can view porn and x, y, z on certain occasions but we have to have boundaries." I cannot accept that. I understand that you and others don't take porn/sex as an addiction seriously. But I found a site that explains from a wife's point of view the toll this takes on marriages...
It is how I feel. If my husband is 'addicted'--use a different word if it makes you more comfortable, like obsessed, compulsive, etc...Anyway if he is so overwhelmed by pornography and sex, then he can't have it 'sometimes' or 'just a little'. I cannot accept that.
Yes, I do accept Dan as my husband, as the man I love. But I cannot be accepting of the things he does that drive a wedge between us and rob us of the intimacy and connection we should have. If I accept them, then it will just be a matter of time before we go down that slippery slope again.
Bobbi.. this is what I meant by speaking to a pschotherapist. Clearly, it is tearing him apart yes.
Why do people get into S&M and submissive/dominant practices? Personally I dont, but maybe they just like it. Maybe they like the feeling of being in control. But if it makes them feel ashamed and disgusted at themselves, theres something deeply wrong there, an inner turmoil. Have you asked him why he is into it? I dont see it that he is "unhappy" with his lifestyle choices and thats why he says he wants to die. I see it that he cannot accept himself and feels ashamed and probably hates himself for it, yes.
I wasnt expecting you to be ok about it... if you cant accept his lifesyle then perhaps you have to walk away yes. He may be able to tackle the addictive pattern of it, but (I dont know of course), I feel it is unlikely that Dan can be 'cured' of his sexual preferences. Anymore than you can cure someone of being gay. I guess I am saying it could be a deal breaker for your M. Nothing to do with religion. Sorry Bobbi.
Ahh.. I took a look at the link. I see what you mean now. I think we are talking at cross purposes then. I am referring to the nature of Dans preferences, not the pattern of them (an addictive pattern) but that is part of it, yes. I was talking about the things that you bravely described he was into, on your last thread. I am not sure you can be 'cured' of those preferences, but perhaps of simple sex addiction yes.
You could be into gay sex for example AND then be addicted to sex (which is a recognised addiction you are right). So, yes, you could be cured of the addiction, but not of being gay.
I respected my sisters decision to stand by her H and we did alot of talking and research (she couldnt tell anyone else), but in the end she chose to walkaway. I respect your decision to handle it how you need to Bobbi too.
Temptation, lust and relationship parasites are what is destroying Dan and his marriage to you. Until he can curtail those cold turkey and love himself and his god, Dan has no hope in loving you as he really should.
Does he really want to practice his faith as the bible says or is he just attending church as part of an act? I so hope your pastor grabs hold of him and asks him some hard questions and makes him wake up to see that his sexual deviances are the main reason his marriage and his very soul is going off a cliff. If Dan believes in his faith, surely he must know that he is going to be judged some day for his indescretions and he is not living his life to a standard that would meet with his gods approval.
Possibly the reason he wakes up every day and wants to die and that he feels that he can never be happy is that he is torn betweeen 2 conflicting lifestyles - that of a sexual diversion and that of an honorable loving family man.
Thanks Ali, for giving me the benefit of the doubt...
I agree that if we want to have a varied sex life at home, that is nobody's business but ours. And I think as long as both people are comfortable, have all the fun you want in bed (or around the house, whatever works )...And trust me we had a lot of fun in bed, he still agrees that was not a weak area of our relationship
The problem is when these things happen outside the two of you, and a wall is built between you...and lies build up, and then one of you has basically a secret life apart from your spouse. You cannot have a marriage if you are living a double life. And Dan has been living one, as far as I can tell. I don't know why it wasn't clear to me before.
I think I was so upset by the affair with stephanie (his coworker in K.C.) that all I could see was the betrayal, the lies of that relationship. In reality that is only one piece of the puzzle. I hate to say it, but as much as he travels, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't be suprised if there were more women 'out there' that he has been with, in one way or another. I couldn't go there in my mind before, but I see the possibility now. So what if SHE wasn't on trips with him. There are escorts/strip clubs/phone lines in every major city in the country, practically...
Temptation, lust and relationship parasites are what is destroying Dan and his marriage to you. Until he can curtail those cold turkey and love himself and his god, Dan has no hope in loving you as he really should.
Does he really want to practice his faith as the bible says or is he just attending church as part of an act? I so hope your pastor grabs hold of him and asks him some hard questions and makes him wake up to see that his sexual deviances are the main reason his marriage and his very soul is going off a cliff. If Dan believes in his faith, surely he must know that he is going to be judged some day for his indescretions and he is not living his life to a standard that would meet with his gods approval.
Possibly the reason he wakes up every day and wants to die and that he feels that he can never be happy is that he is torn betweeen 2 conflicting lifestyles - that of a sexual diversion and that of an honorable loving family man.
WOW Kerry! I missed this as I was posting at the same time...
I agree 100% with what you said. The Pastor actually asked me "Why does your husband come to church?". I told him that Dan was raised going to church (Missouri Synod), that he professed to be a christian, had been baptized, confirmed, etc etc. But he also said he could not deal with the MO Synod b/c at his childhood church, God was seen as gloom-and-doom, punisher, all of us were terrible sinners, etc etc.
We do have to be accountable for our actions but Dan was not raised with the concept of a loving, forgiving God. Our years in church since we got married (non-denominational Christian) have changed that. However, my pastor said it is hard to get out of you the theology that you were raised with, so he likely does have a view that God is "out to get/punish him", so to speak.
And the pastor said, which we all know, that just going to church every week does not make you a believer. He said some people have "church-ianity" instead of "christianity". In other words, they have a routine of going to church, but not a relationship with Jesus Christ. He said he would like to meet with Dan and talk about that, along with the pornography issue.
Kerry I think you are dead-on. He is miserable because he is torn between two divergent lifestyles. He does not know how to live without either. But he is going to have to. And unfortunately at this point, he is dangerously close to losing the 'honorable loving family man/husband' life, which does not leave him with a very good alternative.
Forgot to mention I do believe he needs to go "cold turkey". Because having "a little porn" in your life, if you have been consumed by it, is not an option...
It is an OW of its own. And we are amazed at spouses who think they can be friendly, socialize, work with their former affair partners and that "nothing will happen". The same can be said of an individual with a sexual compulsion/addiction. They can't have a casual relationship with that stuff.
So Sydney comes bursting in my room followed by Nathan this morning:
Sydney: When you getting married again so I can be the flower girl?
Nathan: I want you to get married again tomorrow after church...
I phoned Dan not long after that wake-up from the kids, to tell him we weren't going to counseling with Nathan b/c he had a 101 fever still. Told Dan what the kids said...he said "Tell them not tomorrow"
WTF I am so tired of his B.S. He is set on divorce. But he won't say it. He says "I refuse to have that conversation" instead. He says "I can't risk it, etc etc" Last night before he left he said 'We have no guarantee what it would look like if we got back together, no guarantee it would work'
But he is such an f'ing coward. "Tell the kids not tomorrow". You know what, I did. And Nathan said, "Okay, then Monday".
Forgot to mention when he told me to tell the kids that we aren't going to get married tomorrow (Sunday), I said, "Fine, I will tell them that. But I bet Nathan will just ask, 'Then when will you get married again?' "(b/c he is stubborn like his mom)
Dan got pissed about my response. "Fine, tell them whatever you want. You asked me what I would do, I told you, (say 'not tomorrow') and that wasn't good enough. The past two years you ask me for advice and you never take it. Nothing changes."
So I guess he is back on the "nothing changes" song and dance number. Grr.
I gotta just stop all convos unless about the kids. Although, this one was about the kids. They keep peppering me with thoughts/hopes/questions and NOT asking anything of Dan. So frustrating. But then, they know I want us together so I am sure they are safer sharing stuff with me.
Part of me wants to sit Nathan down and tell him Mommy and Daddy will not be getting back together, he can still wish/pray/dream, but it isn't going to happen. But if I did that without telling Dan I am sure he would be pissed.
)...And trust me we had a lot of fun in bed, he still agrees that was not a weak area of our relationship