I read that and laughed out loud and then I stopped and started to question that perception of how I come off to others on this site. Do I appear as a woman hater?
Not at all.
You come across as a man who has truly found the essence of who he is, the man who was lost somewhere along the line in the course of his relationship. I applaud you rob, and hope that I get to the point where I have the strength of conviction and action that you have. I'm not there yet, but I'm a heck of a lot closer than I was in January when I first posted here.
It was a message to you as much as a reminder to myself that women want strong, decisive men, not wimpy wussy doormats.
I read that and laughed out loud and then I stopped and started to question that perception of how I come off to others on this site. Do I appear as a woman hater?
Not at all.
You come across as a man who has truly found the essence of who he is, the man who was lost somewhere along the line in the course of his relationship. I applaud you rob, and hope that I get to the point where I have the strength of conviction and action that you have. I'm not there yet, but I'm a heck of a lot closer than I was in January when I first posted here.
It was a message to you as much as a reminder to myself that women want strong, decisive men, not wimpy wussy doormats.
What are you doing to get you where you need to be? Have you even started?
I read that quote that's part of you signature, the word "need" was in there.
You don't need anything, changing that signature would be another way to show that.
What are the real necessities of life? Food, water, air, etc.
If those are necessities, everything else is a preference. When you view these things as merely preferences, it's easy to live without them and it's actually easier to attain them as well. Needing anything is usually what prevents you from having it.
Don't worry about hijackin' the thread. Keep the discussion going.
Robx, Ruminating is not intended to be permanent but more of a day or two to gather my thoughts before a big decision.
I aspire to be where you're at. I'm taking action in my life to become independent and GAL (read back a few pages to my response to LuckyGirl for a few details).
This moving thing however...hmm...you re-opened the can of worms and now I'm going through the decision, thoughts, and emotions all over again.
I'm comfortable and feel like I'm making progress in all areas of my life - but I struggle with this house thing.
+ Part of me actually wants to move, just for a while, to rediscover things in my life I've been missing. The downtown house will be fun.
+ Part of me feels like WE need a break. She needs time to process emotions, reduce the negative stuff, rediscover what brought us together.
+/- Things are starting to improve between us. She is warming up and noticing changes in me. However you contend she's just happy because things are going her way.
- If I move, I don't know how I will get over this feeling that I "lost" on the house thing. Sure, if we get divorced I don't want the house or the payments, but in the shorter term I feel like she got her way on all of it. She wants sep but I have to move, and BFF gets to move in.
- BFF is a big-time organizer and busy body. I agree with LuckyGirl that she will wear out her welcome quick. I think that once W realizes BFF is trying to run her show then things won't go smooth. Nonetheless I will make it clear (again and again) that we don't need or want a third wheel or extra parent.
* I've anticipated this sep would be temporary. That is, if things continued as is then I'd be back in three to six months.
? I'm wondering how to turn this thing around if I decide to stay at end of month? Unrenting the house? How do we live together with the resulting intense anger and negative emotions she will have? How do I show independence and change? How do we give each other a break?
? Do I simply turn the tables and tell her there's a cute house waiting downtown for her and her friend to move into?
? Do I take a middle way and announce now that I will be moving back in three months or six months and we will work on the relationship with a MC. Right now this is my preferred action. She gets time, I get time, she will be sick of BFF by then, BFF can rent the cute house, I show some compromise and compassion for the situation but also show resolve and strength. While she sees changes in me now, she probably needs time to believe they are real, not temporary. Potential backfires - she just goes through the motions and files anyway?
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
+ Part of me feels like WE need a break. She needs time to process emotions, reduce the negative stuff, rediscover what brought us together.
When you leave, she will indeed process emotions. She asked you to move out, she is preparing already emotionally. This is a new beginning for her and she is waiting for you to leave so that she can start her new single life, she can't do that with you in the house. I think you yourself mentioned that she got angry when you proposed that she move out and you would stay (it was either you or someone else in a similar situation).
She wants the separation. She wants you to move out. She is being nicer to you to accomplish that goal, when you leave the home, expect her to become a different person because she will be.
Men always think that separation is a time for both partners to review the situation, the time apart makes you grow fonder for each other,etc. That is a male mindset, that is what you believe. I can guarantee you that your wife has different plans.
What is he supposed to do now? Wouldn't he be acting like a ninny if he suddenly said that he wasn't going to move out? Or if he told her to move to the rental house instead? (Plus, he doesn't want to be stuck with the house and house payments if this ends in divorce.)
I can understand holding firm on a position of "I do not want this. This is YOUR choice, not mine. I believe we can save our marriage, and that separation is not the answer..." Is that what you think he should do now?
- If I move, I don't know how I will get over this feeling that I "lost" on the house thing. Sure, if we get divorced I don't want the house or the payments, but in the shorter term I feel like she got her way on all of it. She wants sep but I have to move, and BFF gets to move in.
She did get her way and is getting her way. She wanted the separation and is getting it, She asked you to move out and is getting it, her bff is moving in and you have to move out of your home.
Do you notice any trend here? She is controlling you and the outcome of your life and she isn't worried about how this is impacting you, she is focused on improving her life at the expense of yours - this isn't usually something that somebody does because they love you.
Women don't like controlling men. In fact when a woman controls a man, she usually despises him and treats him poorly because of it.
Her being nice to you during this process is hiding her ulterior motive.
When a woman asks her husband to move out, it usually isn't to strengthen the bond between the two of you - it's the opposite. She wants you out of her life, the first part of that process is getting you out of the house. This is all standard WAW script.
OK, I'll jump back in, seeing as thread hijacking isn't a problem with orangedog.
Originally Posted By: robx
What are you doing to get you where you need to be? Have you even started?
My story is laid out in depth on the first page of my first thread, but here is the readers digest condensed version.
My W decided to get an apartment in October 2008. At first, I agreed that we would shift back and forth to minimize impact on our kids, but at the last minute I just couldn't do it and told her I was staying in the house and she would be at the apartment, and the kids would stay at home. She threatened to go to court to have kids go back and forth, so I conceded that they could shift without any legal action.
For 3 months we did that, and then in January, I decided that it was in fact best for the kids to have one home, so I told W that we could do the shifting back and forth. I thought getting her back in the house, at least part of the time, was a pathway toward reconciliation. It's now been 4 1/2 months since the "nesting" and we are no closer to reconciliation, perhaps further apart.
I know I need to move back in to the home full time, but I'm hesitant to do it before kids are out of school, because I don't want to put them through yet another difficult transition right at the end of the school year.
But I hear you loud and clear rob, I am getting a hold of my N.U.T.S, and just making sure my next move is the best move not only for my M, but more importantly for my kids.
OK, I'll jump back in, seeing as thread hijacking isn't a problem with orangedog.
Originally Posted By: robx
What are you doing to get you where you need to be? Have you even started?
My story is laid out in depth on the first page of my first thread, but here is the readers digest condensed version.
My W decided to get an apartment in October 2008. At first, I agreed that we would shift back and forth to minimize impact on our kids, but at the last minute I just couldn't do it and told her I was staying in the house and she would be at the apartment, and the kids would stay at home. She threatened to go to court to have kids go back and forth, so I conceded that they could shift without any legal action.
For 3 months we did that, and then in January, I decided that it was in fact best for the kids to have one home, so I told W that we could do the shifting back and forth. I thought getting her back in the house, at least part of the time, was a pathway toward reconciliation. It's now been 4 1/2 months since the "nesting" and we are no closer to reconciliation, perhaps further apart.
I know I need to move back in to the home full time, but I'm hesitant to do it before kids are out of school, because I don't want to put them through yet another difficult transition right at the end of the school year.
But I hear you loud and clear rob, I am getting a hold of my N.U.T.S, and just making sure my next move is the best move not only for my M, but more importantly for my kids.
I kind of got lost in the summary so correct if I'm wrong, you guys separated, she moved out, you stayed at home, then to get her to come back home, she left her apartment, moved back home and you moved out? And you go back & forth between your apartment and your home? Is this correct?
So how did this change the situation?
Because the kids are staying/living in the same home but you aren't there.
You thought the shifting back & forth was going to affect the kids? What's affecting the kids is the separation and ultimately the divorce if it gets to that.
Move back home, if your wife doesn't like it, too bad. You're not doing this for her, you are doing this for her.
The last part of your post I put in bold, you mentioned doing the best thing for your marriage and your kids but you left out the best and most important part: doing the best thing for you.
You see during a separation, the knee jerk reaction is always for the guy to leave, staying home and having her move out showed you had some self-respect for yourself. If you moved out and now go back & forth between your apartment and home to make it easy on someone, you're doing it for your wife to make it easier on you and she sees that consciously and subconsciously as you trying to do something for her. Yes you can say you did it for the kids as well but there is a component in there that is communicated over as doing something for your wife to make it easier on her, to show her you want to do stuff for her, for her to love you for your sacrifice, etc.
We only love those that respect & love themselves - this is pretty much true of everyone.
If you move back home, don't ask for permission either. Just do it when you're doing it. You don't need her permission to move back home. If you need to communicate to the kids that you're moving back home, do so. If your wife feels like she has to move out, let her - don't control her or her actions. You just control you. Let her doing the shifting back & forth: if it worked when you were doing it, it will work when she does it too. If she complains, argues or gets angry about it, too bad.
At some point, you have to realize that living in limbo isn't doing you or her any favors. You can't force someone to stay, you can't force someone to work on the marriage, they'll do this only if they want to do it.
Just work on fixing you, improving you, making you the best you can be. You do this first for yourself and you do this to make you better, not to achieve getting your wife to love you again. That's not even part of the equation. In the end you have to show your kids that you love & respect yourself very much, kids learn by example even at an early age. It's a hard thing to do but imagine them going through this struggle when they're adults, imaging their spouses treating them poorly and them reacting in a submissive manner and being treated poorly. How do you like that image? Do you want that for your children? Of course not, none of us do. Communicating being submissive to your spouse is what you are teaching them now because you give in to her demands and make life easier for her at your expense. Be a strong man, someone who is loving, loving enough to have alot of self-esteem,self-respect, self-love, self-value, etc. Be someone who loves themselves enough to let go of the people in their life that won't love & respect them properly. It's an important and difficult lesson to learn but it's a requirement.
