LBS Need help and support #3

[song]

Another one locked. Here's where we left off.

(((((Sandi))))),

Thank you for taking the time to respond with so much thought and care. I really need to read your post a few times and digest it. I do want to clarify something though.

In the very beginning, he was having a terrible, terrible time, and it has gotten worse. You must do what is best for him and it clearly seems that what is going on now is not what is best for his health. I know, divorce does not seem to be the answer for any child. I am not saying that it is! I am saying that the contention between his parents is killing him slowly.

True that my younger son was having a rough time at the beginning. However, it hasn't gotten worse, our relationship has improved tremendously, and he no longer has the extreme separation anxiety when he's with me. I'm not sure what you mean by "what is going on now is not what is best for his health." The kids seem to be adjusting to this whole co-parenting arrangement, and I don't think either of them feel contention between us, just that Mom still needs time.

I know that I need to detach more, and most of the time I feel like I'm doing a good job of it - no calls, emails, contact, unless it involves kids schedules or logistics - it's the times when she has wanted to discuss 'next steps' when all my DBing seems to get lost in panic of the moment.

But, as I told you before, it is time for you to turn her lose and turn her over to God and let Him deal with her and the stitch b/c nothing else and nobody else at this point is going to change her mind.

I ask God every day to give me guidance and help me be a better man, father, husband and Christian, and maybe your message tonight is Him speaking to me, through you. I guess I just don't really understand what it means to fully turn it over to Him. I admit that I am powerless to do anything to change her mind, and I pray for Him to fill her heart with the Holy Spirit and give her peace. I pray for Him to heal her heart of all wounds past and present, and fill her heart with love.

I do want what is best for my kids, and I believe that D will cause more harm long term than the current uncertainty will. This is one reason why I won't come to a mutual agreement that this is what is best. If the decision is made, it is hers, and I can go to my grave with no regrets. But I believe in the sanctity of marriage, and don't believe anything, except for abuse, warrants divorce. That's where I'm having so much difficulty. I can give her all the time she needs, and I can drop the rope, I just can't willingly go along with something that I feel is morally wrong.

Are you saying I should just agree with her and say "OK, if you want a D, I will agree to go along with one even though I don't feel it is the best solution for the kids and I don't believe it is morally warranted."

Can't you see that you already have your answer where she stands? Dont believe anything they say remember. Only actions. What are her actions? Not filing. Not telling the kids.

This does lead me to believe that she still is conflicted and she is looking for me to agree so she can resolve it to herself that it wasn't her decision alone. And I guess my point of standing for my marriage is that if D is going to happen, it will be her decision alone.

I can see that sending that email would be pursuing and controlling, and came to that conclusion after reading PMA's post earlier, but your input further clarifies it.

She is absolutely free to do whatever it is that she needs to do, and the ball is in her court now. I have done what I can do, said what I can say, and it IS in God's hands now.

Thank you for your continued advice and prayers Sandi. You are in my prayers also, and I hope that you are feeling better every day.

[song]

Today is the one year anniversary of the last time W and I ML...sigh.

When does it get easier? When does it stop hurting so much? I know eventually I have to hit bottom, and then things should start moving in the opposite direction. But what happens if when you hit bottom, you get stuck there?

[antlers]

But, as I told you before, it is time for you to turn her lose and turn her over to God and let Him deal with her and the stitch b/c nothing else and nobody else at this point is going to change her mind.

I ask God every day to give me guidance and help me be a better man, father, husband and Christian, and maybe your message tonight is Him speaking to me, through you. I guess I just don't really understand what it means to fully turn it over to Him. I admit that I am powerless to do anything to change her mind, and I pray for Him to fill her heart with the Holy Spirit and give her peace. I pray for Him to heal her heart of all wounds past and present, and fill her heart with love.

I do want what is best for my kids, and I believe that D will cause more harm long term than the current uncertainty will. This is one reason why I won't come to a mutual agreement that this is what is best. If the decision is made, it is hers, and I can go to my grave with no regrets. But I believe in the sanctity of marriage, and don't believe anything, except for abuse, warrants divorce. That's where I'm having so much difficulty. I can give her all the time she needs, and I can drop the rope, I just can't willingly go along with something that I feel is morally wrong.

Can't you see that you already have your answer where she stands? Dont believe anything they say remember. Only actions. What are her actions? Not filing. Not telling the kids.

This does lead me to believe that she still is conflicted and she is looking for me to agree so she can resolve it to herself that it wasn't her decision alone. And I guess my point of standing for my marriage is that if D is going to happen, it will be her decision alone.
She is absolutely free to do whatever it is that she needs to do, and the ball is in her court now. I have done what I can do, said what I can say, and it IS in God's hands now.

Your post speaks to me because that is exactly how I feel too! I pray to God that he helps her to heal. She has told me how she feels...and it seems hopeless for me right now...but I still hang on to hope! Why? They say "don't believe anything they say"! It's hard to do when you hear the stuff I've heard! Anyway, I'm gonna put forth more effort now than ever before to LEAVE HER ALONE! We've had no contact at all since the bad phone call on April 30th. I'm gonna try to be motivated by my love for her, since this is what she needs and wants. I'm gonna try to remember that it's selfish to communicate with her when she does not want it! She knows how I feel, and she's told me how she feels. I've got to turn her loose, and turn her over to God, just like it was mentioned in your post, and let Him deal with her...because nothing else and nobody else at this point is gonna change her mind! I am scared of what is gonna happen. But I've got to start living, and quit just existing. I want to keep going, and have a happy life...one filled with compassion on my part, because it was so lacking on my part before! I'm sorry that we're having to go through this, I'm sorry we've hurt the ones we love, and I hope that things will get better for us. I read your threads, and I have good thoughts for you.

[faithisbelieving]

Song...I will tell you a very simple way to make the pain go. Stop fighting something you can't change and grieve the loss.

You can't shake hands with a closed fist

We men are fixers. Leaky pipe...got it. Weeds..no problem. Toilet flapper valve need replacing...done.

It is not in our genetic makeup to be comfortable without being able to fix.

But...you can't. You CANNOT CHANGE HER NOR CONTROL HER.

Practice makes permanent, not perfect. Doing the wrong thing with increased vigor just hurts you harder and faster, one of the hardest lessons for many people to learn.

Acceptance is difficult. When you finally let go..grieve the loss and release your death grip on your wife....you may finally find that you either:

• find peace
• find time to focus on yourself and make changes
• realize you are still smothering her and pushing her away
• might even find that she finds you attractive again

I guarantee you...GUARANTEE YOU...that you have ZERO chance..if continue this way. Your attitude toward her is still palpably controlling...passive aggressive and obstructive to her and belligerant to her towards your children.

song...why...why would she want to come back to you as you are?

Why?

Although I agree with you that I wouldn't assist her in....facilitate...the divorce, etc...have you really imbued her with feelings of I love you...you can go...door is open?

Doesn't sound that way from your posts. I still read anger, resentment, etc.

Why, song, tell us all why....right now....she should come back to you?

FIB

[song]

Why, song, tell us all why....right now....she should come back to you?

Good question, here are my thoughts.
1) Because she made a vow of 'for better or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and health, good times and bad, 'til death do us part'
2) Because our children will be better off in a two parent home than a single parent home.
3) Because the solution to a problem isn't running away from it or separating yourself from it, but by working through it. She hasn't given our M that opportunity.
4) Because I have made lasting changes to issues she had with me (weight, health, family priorities)

Your attitude toward her is still palpably controlling...passive aggressive and obstructive to her and belligerant to her towards your children.

I don't understand why you say that, could you explain?

Although I agree with you that I wouldn't assist her in....facilitate...the divorce, etc...have you really imbued her with feelings of I love you...you can go...door is open?

Yes, I do believe so. She is gone, has been for 7 months, and though I don't say it, my actions do demonstrate that I love her. I have given her what she asked for, time and space.

Doesn't sound that way from your posts. I still read anger, resentment, etc.

Yes, I have moved from only feeling self pity and hopelessness to anger and resentment. I thought that was a natural progression in the process of grieving. But, I do not display anger or resentment when I see or talk to her, I keep things positive, upbeat, light and friendly. I may come across angry or resentful in my posts here, and that's because this is one of the only places (other than talking to my mom or brother) that I can share and release those feelings.

I do appreciate your advice FIB, and I'm trying to wrap my head around it.

[song]

Still looking for advice, feedback, 2x4's - whatever is appropriate.

[sandi2]

Hi Song,

So you thought I had forgotten about ya, huh? Not a chance!

Yes, I have moved from only feeling self pity and hopelessness to anger and resentment. I thought that was a natural progression in the process of grieving. But, I do not display anger or resentment when I see or talk to her, I keep things positive, upbeat, light and friendly. I may come across angry or resentful in my posts here, and that's because this is one of the only places (other than talking to my mom or brother) that I can share and release those feelings.

Well.......I think there are stages that the LBS has to get through before they can let go of what they wanted to happen and tried to "make" happen......then finally accept what has happened. Not that you have D, but I have always said that a D was like a "death" b/c it is a death of a marriage union. It is always a sad event. If you read my last post I sent to Antlers, tonight, then you read what I told about my mother. Even in a case such as hers where she had to leave and D her first H, it was "sad", even though she knew that was what she had to do. It took her time to get back in the groove of things (if I should put it like that) b/c she had to pick up the pieces of her life and move forward. She did that in a positive way, but it did not make what happen to her disappear or keep it from being a sad event.

I read where (I think it was you) that said you weren't sure how to turn your wife over to God and let Him have the job of taking care of things. Not the exact words, but was that you?

It is not easy. I think my first real experience in being totally helpless and not being able to control the situation was when my daughter, who was a very serious diabetic, was leaving home to join her H in the military. It was nothing for her to be in the hospital at least once a month and we came so close to losing her many times. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do was watch her drive away moving across the states from me. I went inside to the back room and literally fell on my face before God. I could not even pray for a while b/c I was so much in pain and worried about her and what may happen to her while she was away from me. She had always depended on me to take care of her when she was sick. There is a scripture about when we are so grieved that we cannot mutter a word that the Holy Spirit interceeds for us.......well, that was what He had to do for me. I was crying so hard I could not speak a word. I knew there was NOTHING.....absolutely nothing I could do to "fix" the situation. It was what it was! I knew that I had to trust God to take care of her and that I had to turn her over.....completely over to Him to do take charge or I would lose my mind. I don't know how long I laid there, but when I got up, I felt peace in my body and soul. I knew that I had given it all over to God. That is not to say that you don't ever "care" about what is going on, but you know it is in His hands and it is His responsibility to handle. And....you, in the meantime, go on about living. You don't wring your hands and cry and worry and wonder "what if", etc.

I still believe if you can do this where your wife is concerned and drop the rope (which is really giving her over to God) and move on with life........you will have peace and you will be happy in spite of how this appear at this time. Let God work it out. You can't.

I know you have all the right arguments about the kids and the vows and all of that.......but it is what it is and you can't change it. So, let God take it, okay.

Love ya,
Sandi

[song]

{{{{{Sandi}}}}},

Thanks for stopping by, and for not giving up on me. I just read your post to Antlers, and I am just overwhelmed by your selflessness in helping all of us tortured souls. Like I wrote on his thread,I truly felt God speaking to me, through you. I woke up this morning and prayed for Him to give me a sign, and when I read your words to him, let's just say the waterworks started. But not tears of sadness, tears of release, and hope, and faith. I can't explain it, but I'm sure you know what I mean.

Sometimes I come here and and just get so down reading of others pain, and I try to offer words of support and encouragement, but I wonder if I should keep coming back. Then I read a post like yours, and I know I'm being brought back here for a reason.

I read where (I think it was you) that said you weren't sure how to turn your wife over to God and let Him have the job of taking care of things. Not the exact words, but was that you?

Yes, it was me. And again, your response is spot on.

Thank you, and God, for what you do Sandi. You are making a profound difference in people's lives. Love you too!

[song]

OK, just needed to share something.

After W dropped the bomb, I stopped listening to music because it was something that was integral to our relationship, and so many songs brought up painful memories.

Recently, I have started listening to music again, focusing more on records (if I can refer to bodies of music as records) that were not ones we shared, or even ones I liked that she disliked.

I went out to mow the lawn, and put on an old favorite, Nine Inch Nails - Pretty Hate Machine. She particularly disliked that one, and I hadn't heard it in a while.

Well let me tell you, I heard it through a whole new set of ears. That record is the ultimate testimony of a LBH. It has it all there - anger, angst, loneliness, pain, sorrow, pleading, conceding, backsliding, and finally acceptance. And the way the lyrics are so perfectly reflected in the music and the vocal performance really drives it all home.

If you've never heard it, I recommend you check it out, even if it isn't your style of music. If you have a copy, dig it out and listen to it, you'll likely hear it in a whole new light. If that style of music really just isn't your thing, at least google it and read the lyrics.

Brilliant, cathartic and liberating.

Would love to hear other records that have helped in this journey.

[Silver Fox]

Hi Song,

Just surfing around the board today and noticed your post. My H and I also listened to a lot of music together. In fact, we met 24 years ago in an alternative night club. He had a mohawk and played bass in a band that focused on lyrics about the "older" generations' F'd up lives, including D. I often wonder what that 22 year old would think of himself now.

We liked Nine Inch Nails too and I think that CD is buried somehwhere in the house. I'm going to look for it this weekend.

Thanks and stay strong.