PM Thread #5 - Hope new plan works

[PositivelyMommy]

I think it all sounds wonderful!!! Yeah, if he was happy, it does seem like he would look it or not look miserable. I love that he noticed how hot you looked, and it was great that he knows you don't plan to sit on a shelf in case he might be interested in you again someday. And yeah, that person when you get remarried would be a huge figure in your kids' life, b/c I know some guy is not going to let you get away! I think WAS have all this stuff planned out and then it doesn't wind up like they wanted, which is good.

Yeah, Karen, that was my message to him two weeks ago. 'I intend to move if you don't decide to come back.' But I wanted to appear to him to be happy, content with whichever decision he made. No pressure, no emotional blackmail, that this decision would be all his own. And hopefully he will consider to see me as an option. I don't need him to come back to me right away, but just see me as an option, I am willing to make this baby step.

And you are right regarding their perfect plan doesn't work out right. In fact, I don't think any of it has turned out right for him and that is why he is miserable.

[PositivelyMommy]

PM,

Congratulations on the meeting. It sounds as though you did brilliantly. Well done! From your post it didn't even sound as though you were too conflicted during the session and that you'd definitely gone past the acting 'as if' stage. That shows real strength of character and conviction. Kudos to you!

Hey Kev,

Thanks for your help before the meeting, it really brought my theme together, no guilt, get through it, so he will be free to come back and get through his own actions and bad decisions. That's really set the tone for my attitude, I think. You are right, I wasn't conflicted at all. I think enough time has passed and I have dug into myself enough to know what I want and am clear as to my direction so I was not torn.

I'm trying to put myself in your H's place right now and must admit I'm finding it difficult. The fact he noticed and commented on how good you looked just goes to show that he's beginning to lose some of the WAS traits. When he says things like that you can bet that he means them. I'm going to go out on a limb here and make a bit of an assumption. As a guy, the way you describe your H's actions sounds very much like he now feels trapped with OW.

I hope you are right, Kev. I really hope he feels trapped with her. All I know is he is not ultra happy, living the carefree life that he has envisioned.

I don't know what kind of R they have but I've got a feeling she is controlling his actions to a certain extent. In doing this she is obviously your main hurdle.

I know she won't let go easily. I know they have some kind of co-dependent R going on. Both unhappy, both working together on same projects (he is her boss), both seeing each other night and day. It's not like she is going to meet anyone else soon. So she will be hanging on for dear life. But that might just be enough for a turnoff for H since all he wants now is LESS responsibility and trouble, not MORE.

Your H will be feeling a fear of going back.

Why is this Kev, can you explain? Do you mean that he is scared of coming back to me and things won't work out?

You also managed to let him know that you're not willing to wait forever though by mentioning the possibility of moving back home and getting remarried. That must have knocked him back a bit?

I think he has thought about it but since I never voiced it it might have shocked him, yes. I think he thinks that I would have a very difficult time finding a new partner in life because I would be a certain age, with two small children. What kind of man could manage so much responsibility at the beginning of an R. It would indeed be a very special one, I think. I don't know, I am a pretty special woman and now I am strong again and attractive (if I do say so myself, hehe) so I think it would be a matter of being in the right place at the right time. However, in my imagination, it is a definite possibility and you know I am a woman of action so I will NOT wait around. I have plans and lists and will be active in looking for a new long-term companion when the time is right and when I am ready.

Love for it to be H since I don't believe in D and believe my vows but I can't make this M work alone, it does take two.

Anyway, I fully believe now that your H won't need too much encouragement to come back to you if only he could find a way to get shot of OW.

Wow Kev, I do hope you are right. I can't see it myself, maybe because I am too close to the situation but H and I really haven't talked about OW so I really don't know how their R is. But from my text I know him dictating to her CANNOT be a good thing for a R. It will cause friction. I also know that H is not truly happy and him being grumpy all the time will bound to affect the R as well.

I think now he is coming down from the endorphin highs, the 'honeymoon period', for her as well. We will see how this plays out. This is what I have been waiting for one year now!

[PositivelyMommy]

PM,

It definately looked like YOU had him in the palm of your hand, brilliant, I am so pleased for you. I like the way you epitomised DR to the max - looking good, PMA, detachment, GAL. You clearly have got your life on track and looking to the future with or without your H, though that would be the ultimate.
We all know most WAW's have planned a new life before the bomb has dropped, thinking the grass is always greener with OP or alone, in some cases this may be the case, but in general this is not usually the case from what I hear and read.

Thank you so much for your encouragement Mark. I hope to live as I preach. I guess that is why I go to Newcomers and read. I want to reinforce what I learn and 'make it stick'. I also want to put myself in others' shoes and see how men and women interact. I guess that is why I have just a little insight into why your W is angry at you. Because I thought those exact same thoughts of my H. Now I know where I erred. I knew my H was not deliberately selfish, I just knew he didn't step up. So I dearly hope that you could do that for your R with your kids at least so you can have an improvement over the past.

You are absolutely right about the greener grass statement. My IC used the same words in his prior session to me. I can see now that my H does not think the grass is greener with OW. Where he chooses to go is still up for grabs.

[PositivelyMommy]

That sounds so great! Well done, you totally rocked!

That is great that he commented that you looked good I also think that you got him thinking about the very real possibility that he may have to lose you and share his kids. You were so brave!

You know, even if you don't a have a r talk right away I have found you can bond over other talk and sometimes that leads to a r talk when the time is right. So long as you work out a way to communicate about things again it can open up opportunities later on.

When WAS's leave they have so much power, we walk on eggshells and I think they get used to that, in fact I think it enables them. That balance is shifting and you are showing yourself to be a strong, powerful woman - and that is so attractive!

I agreed with everything you said, JCJ. It's funny how everyone here commented on H's observation about my looks. I wonder why. Does it mean that H is seeing me thru different eyes now but does his comment signify that he can really see 'me' now, not the victim he has to feel guilty over. Anyway, I will think about it some more because everyone here commented on it.

JCJ, I agree about talking about other things and that is why I would like to see what he says this weekend. I will try to keep it light. I will only go to the 'touchy subjects' if he broaches them himself.

I definitely feel a shift in power. It feels GOOOOOD to be in control of myself and my life again. Yeh!

[Can it work]

Hi PM,

I'll try and explain that fear of going back comment a bit further.

If it was me in your H's shoes and I wanted to come home I would be asking myself questions such as, if it didn't work out the first time, why should it now? How can things ever be the same after what I've done? In the past before becoming a LBS myself I would be asking myself these very questions if I'd left my partner.

This is why I believe that DBing has to be a gradual process where issues are sorted out before final reconcilliation. I know for a fact my old M is dead; as is yours. I wouldn't want that M back to be honest and with the person you seem to have become, I'd doubt you'd want yours back either. In that sense it's not so much a reconcilliation we're looking for but a new beginning. A WAS might not see it the same way we do though. In a way, they're surprised by our new changes. They expect everything in their old life to remain the same but WE are not the same. We've improved ourselves for ourselves. I would find it odd if they didn't find some fear or trepidation in being with this new person.

So, to begin with, we must create an entirely new relationship with the person we already love. It starts with the first date, the first kiss, and so on. Our WAS have to get to know the new us and learn to appreciate the people we've become. That's their cross to bear. That is where I believe their fear will come from.

I hope that's slightly clearer?

Kev

[PositivelyMommy]

Hey Kev,

Thanks so much for your post, I am so glad you are on my side. What you said really makes sense. I can start seeing things from my H's side now.

Just for the record, I also believe that issues need to be resolved before reconciliation. Big time. And I agree that yes, we are different people now and the relationship would have to be a new one. I will reframe my thinking in this way.

So you are saying that they fear that the R would be the same as before...Hmm.. I have been making changes in myself and I think he sees them. I am not so sure if there are many changes in him as he has built walls around himself. So the question is, how can I convince him further that the R would not be the same. You and I know that it won't but how do I do it subtly?

Second question is,I have changed, for the better but if he feels trepidation about this new person I have become, then trust needs to be built up again. On both sides. I can see that it will take a lot of time and patience. So how to get him to see that it is a chance worth taking?

Is there anything I can do or is everything dependent on him? Someone who is so confused and who may not have my interest or the kids' interests or even his own interest in mind? I feel as if he is reacting to his 'feelings' e.g. I am feeling good with OW, so I will spend time with her. And I am feeling guilty around PM and the kids so I can't get too close to them.

If someone is reacting totally to what feels good, to a certain extent, I can help him feel good about being around his family. But there are some posters on this site that recommends tough love and just cut off all contact. I feel it won't work on my H's case because he will see that as another major rejection of him and he will get so mad at me that he will not reach out to me anymore. I have worked so many months to get where I am, I don't want that. Also, my C and DB coach advice me to use kindness, to treat him like a friendly neighbor and be gentle.

I guess the answer is that maybe there isn't really much more I can do now. I am where I want to be, he needs to make the next move. If he decides that he just can't trust a future with me, then I can't convince him with words.

I want to tell him that our issues are common among couples, that they are not insurrmountable. That I have more insight into what drives my behavior and so therefore I can change my reactions.

I am not sure he can trust himself, though.

[JCJ]

Hi PM

Your post struck me as I've been thinking about the tough love approach lately. The posters who advocate it seem so sure in their approach that I started to question myself.

I think there is a difference between the treatment of people that just leave and those who pass through a crisis. I also think it is really important to change something, whatever the situation, and looking at what you contributed to the break up and change it. I may be way off the mark with this but if you look at the mlc boards they advocate different treatment and there are some very experienced posters on there.

I can only speak for my sitch but if I had put 'tough love' in place my h would have fled. He wouldn't have been able to cope. He already thought I must hate him, the guilt was too much so I believe that we wouldn't be building a friendship if I had taken this approach. I found DB late so I would have done things differently in the beginning, and maybe things would have been different but I didn't, so I am working with what I have. Also, too much time had passed imo and he needed handling with kid gloves. I believe my h is in some kind of crisis.

I also feel that when you are separated it is very hard to be hard-line on affairs etc as you lose all your power. I do think though that you need to set clear boundaries when you need to. If you read some of the advice on the mlc - Jack_Three_Beans and Snodderly - crisis is a different cup of tea. My advice is you know your situation best, do what works.

[PositivelyMommy]

Hey JCJ,

Thanks for responding, I have been wrestling with it and I really do believe that cutting contact would have driven him further away. The wierd thing with my H was, he wanted to have his cake and eat it, he wanted the A but then he would come home on weekends and spend it with us. He NEVER asked to have the kids to himself or to leave me out of any family events. His Mom was starting to think that he is using me for handy babysitting service so that his visits would be a bit easier for him.

But my thinking is no, I think he feels awkward every weekend when he comes over but then after an hour or so, we get back into our routine, I DB my but* off and act as if and he actually starts to relax a bit. I think he actually misses family time so he likes it when he comes over. So the answer is if I cut him off, it would be awkward for him. So THEN the question is, should I cut him off now, withdraw my company and really let him experience how it is without me so that he can 'wake up' out of his fog and MAYBE miss me. Or should I continue to be kind and compassionate and wait it out? I don't really know if either would work. I just know that I would miss my kids like heck if I left them to him every weekend or every second weekend. In a wierd way, I would miss my H as well.

I figure, we are discussing formal separation. If he doesn't come back within the next few months, I'm moving home back with my family. He really will be alone then as we would be thousands of miles away. I think that reality is finally hitting him. I don't want to make anything contact that is negative or to cause any bad feelings anymore. He knows where I stand.

[JCJ]

Or, could you change the rountine of the weekends a little - I don't know if you have already tried that.

It seems like he relies on you as a safety net when the children are around. What do you normally do on the weekends together?

Is there a way of changing something? Using another of Michelle's techniques? Something less extreme, but maye more effective, than just cutting contact.

The reason people picked up on his complimenting you is that (it is written, obviously I am not a man so don't know) that generally men don't notice women they have no attraction to.

[markhaving probs]

Hi PM,

I hope you are well. In your sitch it looks like you are coming to a point where you have to make a crucial decision.

Knowing you, you will make the right decision based on what is best for you and your children. Far be it from me to think I could offer anything like the support and help you have given to me, but I presume you hope if you do make that decision to move then hopefully it might wake you H up and start to realise what he is going to miss.

gucciloafer kindly started a new string for me in Newcomers as I wanted to get some advice on dropping the rope to help me to detach. Like the differing opinions and advice you have received I am slightly confused as to how to detach. I am working to the anticipation strategy to the best of my ability, but the advice on trying to detach from my wife has been very different, particularly if she is in MLC which appears to have a different strategy completely.