to cooperate you have to fight fair. The problem with fighting fair is it takes two people. Statements such as "you always..., and you never..." are examples of unfair fighting. If you are trying to work something out, you both need to erase that from the vocabulary. there are rules to getting along in a marriage. You can learn them at a Retrouvaille weekend.
Agreed.
The question that really sparked this whole discussion from me was how to handle a spouse who does not fight fair. I can't just hope "Well, if only she would not do that" and right now Retrouvaille is out of the question.
Maybe this is a topic for our next MC.
Better yet, I am looking for a way to change what I do or how I react that accepts that she is going to fight that way, but that i can deflect it and get the discussion back on track.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Sometimes I think that the internally-driven emotional roller coasters are the worst.
Outwardly, the weekend was pretty good. Internally, however, I was on a real roller coaster.
It started off on Friday, with me contemplating strength and sexuality. I have always been a pretty self-confident person. That took a big blow in my M during the past few years, but I am now getting that back with my GAL, etc, so I am feeling pretty good about myself. Still struggling to "Get my mojo back" sexually, however. I don't mean in the actual act - I mean standing up, being open that I am a sexual being, openly desiring my W, confidently flirting, etc. My main confusion / barrier here is the dichotomy between "Be strong, open, and self confident" and "Don't pursue, no pressure"
On Friday, after a lot of internal struggling I convinced myself that pretending to be asexual and just allowing my W to lead at her own pace was not being true to myself and was not the best thing for any of us. After a lot of thought, I started to flirt with her, openly indicating that I wanted to ML later in the evening. I was fairly blunt about it, but was prepared to take rejection well.
She reacted badly: "I've told you it makes me uncomfortable and makes me feel pressured" (it never did in the early days of our M, just recently) "You aren't listening to me" "I'm worried about my Mom and don't feel like it" "Our M is a mess and I don't want to"
So I dropped it. No Issue.
The evening and Saturday were pretty relaxed. We hung out with the kids, did our own things, watched a couple of movies together, etc. She was a bit distant and uncomfortable at times, but I had decided that I was not going to wait for her. If I wanted a hug, I was going to hug her (and did). If I wanted to snuggle in front of the movie, I would ask her. I did and she moved from her spot on the opposite end of the couch to a position snuggling with me. If I wanted to kiss her, then I would. I did and she didn't push me away.
It bothered me a bit that she was not initiating anything. It left me in the position of wondering whether she was happy with it, or whether she was just being compliant (and hiding resentment...). This, however, just may be a "NiceGuy" problem that I have.
Sunday was a nice Mothers Day - The boys and I made a nice breakfast, then church and a relaxing day at home. Internally, however, I got angry.
I'm really not sure where the anger came from, but I was suddenly angry. I acknowledged to myself that the R had not been all that great for her either, but I still got really angry and left the house so that I could work it out without blowing up at my W. I was angry that for years (3+?) I had not gotten what I needed out of the R. I was angry that my W had emotionally pulled away (abandoned me?) and I recalled all of the slights and petty blows that I had felt from her over those years. I was angry at the pain that she had inflicted over me through the EA, and I was especially angry that I was the one doing all of the work to try to fix the R and that she seemed unwilling to put any real effort into it right now.
I walked, I journaled, I worked it out. The anger is still there, but It is not controlling me now. I was able to spend a happy evening with my W and kids without being angry or resentful.
At bed time for the boys, something interesting happened. My W tried to give S6 a good-night hug and he rejected her. She tried to force him, and he refused. The stand off continued and she got really angry and yelled at him "That's not acceptable. You don't do that! You give people hugs, you kiss them, you tell them you love them! It's what you do!" I had to leave the room so I didn't get involved, but I almost cracked up laughing it was so ironic. I wanted to record her words and play them back to her since this was exactly how she had been treating me for a very long time.
(Note: I asked S6 about it later and he said "She didn't say 'Please'!" )
We finished getting the kids in bed and I went to go do a few household chores - prepared to write off the weekend as one of distance and emotional confusion...
...and then she initiated ML!
...and it was good! More intensity and passion than we have had in a very very long time.
...and then she got distant again for the rest of the evening.
...and now things are friendly and cool again this morning.
---------------
So this still leaves me with the central question I have have been working on:
How can I be strong, sexual, and "Own the sex and romance department" of our R, while still not pressuring her?
Last edited by Thinker; 05/11/0904:33 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Still struggling to "Get my mojo back" sexually, however. I don't mean in the actual act - I mean standing up, being open that I am a sexual being, openly desiring my W, confidently flirting, etc. My main confusion / barrier here is the dichotomy between "Be strong, open, and self confident" and "Don't pursue, no pressure"
Quoted without comment but with much concurrence. 10-freakin'-4.
(Apropos of nothing, everyone on the boards seems to be gettin' jiggy wit' the mojo these days! I'd love to see that in the next edition of MWD's book -- Divorce Busting Technique #8 -- get yer mojo back! LOL)
Quote:
I convinced myself that pretending to be asexual and just allowing my W to lead at her own pace was not being true to myself.
Hooah. As the man from Stratford-upon-Avon wrote, "This above all: to thine own self be true; And it must follow, as the night the day; Thou canst not then be false to any man."
Quote:
I was angry that for years (3+?) I had not gotten what I needed out of the R. I was angry that my W had emotionally pulled away (abandoned me?) and I recalled all of the slights and petty blows that I had felt from her over those years. I was angry at the pain that she had inflicted over me through the EA, and I was especially angry that I was the one doing all of the work to try to fix the R and that she seemed unwilling to put any real effort into it right now.
Yes, me likey. Me likey verrry much. Own it, brother.
Quote:
How can I be strong, sexual, and "Own the sex and romance department" of our R, while still not pressuring her?
I think you answered your own question, man -- last night.
Mama got a taste of sugar, baby!
As my DB Coach said, after a successful interaction, back waaaaaayyyyyy off the next day. Don't cloud WAW's thinking. She's going to feel like she's losing control, and control is what WAW wants above all else.
Let it ride. Let her think on it. Let her remember it. Let her smile to herself in her private moments.
(Apropos of nothing, everyone on the boards seems to be gettin' jiggy wit' the mojo these days! I'd love to see that in the next edition of MWD's book -- Divorce Busting Technique #8 -- get yer mojo back! LOL)
LOL!
We have all been borrowing the word from your threads! It's so fitting that it's hard not to use; strength, sex, and self-confidence all rolled up into a nice clean 4-letter word.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Starting to work my way through Schnarch's "Passionate Marriage".
He makes some very good points in his definition of "Differentiation" vs. "Fusion" This parallels and clarifies the concept of "Loving Detachment" vs Codependency, and I am finding it pretty interesting and relevant to my sitch.
It's showing me where I still need to work on myself.
Last edited by Thinker; 05/12/0902:29 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
I am so excited to hear that you are finding value in PM. That read was one of the most profound I've had in years. The information on differentiation is meaningful for everybody, not just lovers.
Seems that your sitch took an interesting turn this weekend. I'm so happy for you!
It's slowly moving in the right direction. W was distant all day yesterday and last night, and then was very snuggly this AM.
I think she is still very scared.
I also still have a lot to work on myself.
The concepts in the beginning of PM are very good - the importance of standing on your own two feet emotionally - to quote PM "The ability to maintain a clear sense of one-self when loved ones are pressuring for conforming and sameness".
The only issue with the book so far is that it is so sexual that it is very painful to read if you are currently not being sexual with your H/S.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Haha! Tell me about it... I read in a starvation period that was going on months.
Oh, I have to giggle about the case study about the woman wanting her H to wear silk shirts because she thinks they are sexy. Not to guys: Silk shirts are not sexy... They can be fruity, and are certainly dated. Do not be led astray by that passage in PM.
I had to leave the room so I didn't get involved, but I almost cracked up laughing it was so ironic. I wanted to record her words and play them back to her since this was exactly how she had been treating me for a very long time.