Sorry for not being around much today. I just think be more natural - you first text sounded forced. Great job on the second text and joke. You don't know she didn't laugh, remember she just can't show you any give at the moment
Your W cannot possibly show any melting towards you...likely she's been on this WAW walk for a while and along the way constructed all sorts of "truths" in her head - "he can't change, he won't change, he'll never change... "
Whatever you are doing right now can and will be seen as "too much and too late"...but thats where your new found skills as a man and as daddy come in...it may be too late - which you accept...but hey - this is who you are are now...Mark - make these changes stick - you might not win this battle, but you might win the war...
In Jeremy Paxman terms I'll give you a starter for 10:-
Mark, you have some strategies -tell us how you're deploying them proactively:-
I hope you had a good day. On reflection it sounded false and too structured. Next time I will 'Mark' it better but remembering the DB fundamentals.
I agree, there was no way she was going to respond but I am going to be who I am, and if she doesn't react...no problem as long as it is not false. I hope to talk to you tomorrow.
GFI2,
On your "too much, too late", that was uttered 3 months ago to a mutual family friend, but I did expect that from her as it was radical changes I was doing. the normal things, helping around the house, being more helpful towards my wife and the children etc. Also, the change was new at the time and would have been treated with contempt, I have to remember patience and continued and consistent actions speak louder than words.
I do have to be a bit careful here as I wrote a letter to each of my children thanking them for the lovely weekend we had together. I also wrote down I love them both and am very proud of them both. My wife understandably had to read my son's letter to him, she said to my son and daughter it was "over the top". I thought it was unfair of her to utter this within their earshot, they do not need to know what she is thinking as my daughter told me she was pleased to receive a letter and had written a response.
I am happy to be spending quality time with my children and it is strange my wife treats my efforts with scepticism, though I presume it is because I have been neglectful in this area and feels I am going overboard with my actions now.
As far as strategies are concerned I will continue to check the childrens schedule and see if I can offer my services...but under my conditions so that I using my 'anticipation list' rather than being reactive or waiting for my wife to suggest times when I can pickup/drop off the children. I will also think ahead to events/activities we can do when I have the children so that if I am asked I will have an answer ready. Of course I will run any activity I have planned by the children first.
This really is hard work to try and keep the changes going, but I guess this is why they call it a Labour of Love.
Last edited by markhaving probs; 05/07/0910:55 PM.
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
Its strange, feels peculiar to have this realisation... and then all the more so to do something about it! Even more so for your W!!! Mark - don't go too overboard with it! "Feel yourself into" things...
IMO you'redoing a great great job right now -but reel yourself in a bit and look for ways in which you can take charge a bit...e.g. kids don;t necessarily have minds of their own - "ok kids 2 choices -we have pizza or bacon sandwiches - which would you prefer ?" rather than-"what would you like for tea? and "juice or milk with that ? " rather than what would you like to drink?
Mark - you're in charge...you can anticipate needs within reason but they also have to be "manageable needs"
The smartest bit of advice I ever found on this board was nothing to do with "winning" my wife back but was about managing children and offering options in order to achieve a win/win situation -"kids, 2 options here -either another 10 minutes playing and then bath and story or 20 minutes playing, shower and no story -choose...!" -put crudely - but I hope you can see the strategy!
Mark - at the moment - your efforts are laudable - but you might be trying "too hard" through your kids - remember - whatever you're setting up in terms of expectations via your kids -you'll have to keep on doing, or else they'll be let down...letters are great etc...but is it realistic to keep that up?
Another good bit of wisdom I found said that to be seen as a "good dad" came from a single fundamental act -to do what you say you are are going to do -ie "I'll pick you up from school at 3.30 and then we;ll go to the park...I'll be there at 11.00am and we'll go to the pictures...and do it!
Mark - its all about actions...consistent, reliable actions - you're doing GREAT but don't set yourself up for a fall...
Your anticipations are great but these have to be almost "behind the scenes" - your kids "don't know" what they want-they're kids -not mini-adults - part of anticipating is knowing those things for them -having all bases covered and if something comes up that you haven't accommodated for being able to deal with it in an adult way.
I'm sorry if I've come across a bit harsh -that was not my intention -its a lesson I've learnt myself - and i know its difficult to get to grips with in the middle of such difficulties with your W...but just wanted to pass it on...
After reading your post I have realised I am trying to impress my wife via my children.
I know my children are enjoying spending time with me and obviously my first consideration is obviously them and I would like to think I am doing things that I never did when our marriage was solid. It is shameful that I neglected my childrens needs so much, and come to that, my wife's too.
The trouble is I know I am still having trouble detaching and just concentrating on the children. I am concerned that any negative action or utterance by me will be seen as a backslide, therefore I think I am fabricating situations to please my wife conciously and sub-conciously. I must cut out this 'seeking approval' behaviour and drop the rope. I asked gucciloafer to send me a link regarding dropping the rope but I have not received anything as yet.
This behaviour yesterday caused me to concoct a text to my wife in regard to a plumbers visit. The text I sent (which I wrote in a post yesterday) sounded way too contrived and when my wife read it, she said it was like being sent a text from somebody she had never met. This agitated her and our conversation was very much on a 'business' level rather than friendly.
To conclude, my actions, anticipations and behaviour has to be tempered to make it more 'natural'. I am trying so hard to DR with my wife and use all the tools and strategies, whilst trying to build a relationship with my children. I appear to have compartmentalised my sitch into two seperate 'projects' - 1. Build relationship with children. 2. Start to re-build a friendly relationship with my wife. I know I am trying to fast track things a little in my relationship with my wife by being a bit over the top with the children and trying to attract approval and to show her my changes, but the letter writing and the wooden text has cause agitation and suspision.
Last edited by markhaving probs; 05/08/0907:02 AM.
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
I really think you're starting to get a grasp of what it is you're doing wrong. You need to stop trying to use your R with your kids to impress your W. In fact, you need to stop trying to impress your W period. In trying to impress her with your actions, those actions will come across as false and she knows you well enough to be able to see right through it. What you need to do is to have the conviction to improve for yourself regardless of what she thinks. The chances are that she'll notice and like what she sees. The main thing here is that your changes will be genuine and easier to maintain. If you're only making changes to get your W back, it'll be much harder to keep them going in later life. If however, you do them for yourself and remain true to yourself during these changes, they will become second nature to you and be easy to maintain.
I definitely sense you're doing better now Mark. Keep up the good work.
Kev
Me: 32, Wife: 22 Son: 2 Married: 2 years Separated: January 5th 2009
Sometimes you have to become lost before you can find yourself.
I'm glad you agreed with my own observations and I will work on that. Also, like you I am very impatient and try to speed things up, but we are talking about the rest of our lives so lots of patience is required to achieve the ultimate goal.
I saw your post on PM's thread after her C yesterday. Good post mate.
Mark
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
My wife is bringing the children over later so that I can give them dinner. She clearly has an ulterier motive as she said she would drop them off and pick them up. This means she is probably off to see the OP and is so such selfish this is the only way she can see him. To prove my point I bet right now when she turns up she will be smart casual, in a hurry and will not be wearing her weeding rings. I cannot guarantee this but its a hunch.
I know I have been told many times not to concern myself about what she is doing. The thing is,she is making me look an idiot and it is starting to annoy me. Do I just ignore what is going on, play dumb and just concerntrate on me and the children, or do I confront her (without any proof)and ask her again outright?
We have had one week where there has been no confrontation and reasonable communication. I just feel so frustrated with this sitch, particularly as I know patience is not my forte. Should I continue DR, GAL, 180's etc, or try and force the issue and try and get her to admit to whatever is going on?
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
As suspected my wife turned up without rings and smart casual. I was upbeat and had been reading a book in the garden. She noticed the grass needed cutting, but I informed her there was a gardener who maintained the garden. She uttered "no gardening, reading you book all day" in a sarcastic tone. It was if to say how lucky I am, I felt quite good about that.
I ignored her comment as she cannot now draw me into a row, which I now find very easy. She left, we played in the garden for awhile, I cooked a sunday roast chicken, and ice cream to follow. I gave the children a shower and got them ready for bed.
When W arrived the children told her what we had done and had eaten, also my daughter's books had arrived for our night time reads. I also gave my daughter some money for a trip she is going on tomorrow. At no stage did my wife thank me or really take any interest in what they had done, in actual fact she was quite distant. I never asked her anything about what she had done this afternoon. She does not seem angry but her mood seems 'strange' like she is day-dreaming one minute and then agitated the next and then attempts to be confrontational thereafter.
She attempted to draw me into another row by saying she had bumped into some friends who had seen me three weeks ago. The conversation I had with the friends involved me saying I missed the children who had then told my wife. My W sarcastically said "did you go for the sympathy vote saying you missed the children", she also said I need to watch the children more for some reason. Basically, she failed on every level to engage me into a fight, also, she could not find any fault with me but still tried to put me down. It was like water off a ducks back, she even said to me "are you alright?". I said I am fine thank you.
I told her I would have my son to stay on Tuesday and then they left. I thought I dealt with the whole afternoon/evening well in regard to DR as I put the childrens needs first, I was able to negate negativity coming from my wife and I showed from her comments about t he garden etc that she feels I am GAL and getting on with things.
Last edited by markhaving probs; 05/10/0907:30 PM.
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
