WAW - Very confused and devastated - pt 8

[confusedinpa]

I had a good session with my therapist. We talked more about getting in touch with my feelings and she thought I was in a good spot mentally. She thinks that I've detached very quickly. I told her about how we're still talking about chit chat frequently. She thinks my wife is still confused as now that she's moved out, she isn't feeling what she's expected. I told her of my plan to wait about 4 weeks and see where she's at. My therapist was supportive of that but I'm not sure

My wife called last nite for the boys to say goodnite. After the boys were done talking she got on the phone. She talked about how my youngest was still struggling and had thrown up. While she was on the phone he threw up again. After she cleaned up she called me back and chatted some more as well as my youngest.

After a couple of minutes, I heard my oldest having some issues in the background. I told her it sounded like she has to take care of something so I told her that I was going let her go

I'm still struggling with how I don't see how we're progressing to save the marriage. It seems like we are settling into a routine where we stay seperate/divorce.

Perhaps I'm still being too available and I'm seeing her too much. Its tough with all the things that are going on with the kids. I don't want to miss things with the kids. Or should I?

Any thoughts?

[song]

CIPA,

It's so hard getting used to separation, wanting to see change, and the only change you see is W detaching. I know, I've been there, I am there, and I have the same doubts and fears after 7 months of it. I did see a good analogy on another thread that I think is appropriate.

I like to use the analogy of picturing DBing as an oceanliner at sea. In order to get it to change in the opposite direction you start spinning that wheel around and around, but at first you don't see any change in heading. There's a lag between the time you spin that wheel and when the rudder actually changes the ships direction thru the water and that a ship takes a large arc to get it to circle aroung in the other direction ... but so long as you keep turning that wheel that ship will turn.

Hang in there and keep up the DBing. Check out AFWAW's thread as there is great advice from Gucci Loafer, Puppy, and others.

[MrBond]

"After a couple of minutes, I heard my oldest having some issues in the background. I told her it sounded like she has to take care of something so I told her that I was going let her go"

You should have ended it way before that. Right after you said goodnight to the boys.

"I'm still struggling with how I don't see how we're progressing to save the marriage. It seems like we are settling into a routine where we stay seperate/divorce."

Glad to see you recognize this. You are in a routine right now. Shake things up. How on earth is she going to miss you if you talk to her every time? Do you enjoy being her security blanket? After awhile, she's going find another.

"Perhaps I'm still being too available and I'm seeing her too much. Its tough with all the things that are going on with the kids. I don't want to miss things with the kids. Or should I?"

Don't miss out on anything with the kids, but let's face it. Most of your interactions aren't with the kids. You're talking, "chit-chatting" with each other. Go to your kids' events, take them out on your own without inviting your W to everything. Go when she invites, but don't get upset when she doesn't.

Since she left, you've asked the same thing over and over. Yet you continue to do the same thing and wonder why nothing has changed.

Like Michele says...do something different. Have you written down any goals? I'm talking small baby step goals that will lead you to asking her out 4 weeks from now. Cold to no contact.

I'm talking small goals for your M and for yourself. Like losing x pounds...taking a new class...learning a new language, etc.

[confusedinpa]

Since she left, you've asked the same thing over and over. Yet you continue to do the same thing and wonder why nothing has changed.

Like Michele says...do something different. Have you written down any goals? I'm talking small baby step goals that will lead you to asking her out 4 weeks from now. Cold to no contact.

I'm talking small goals for your M and for yourself. Like losing x pounds...taking a new class...learning a new language, etc.

That's a good question about goals. I haven't done anything formally (i.e. written or with measures). I'll have to give it some more thought. Maybe that can be a goal : )

Nevertheless, since the bomb I've already lost over 25 lbs and I've really been working on myself to understand my own emotions. Never gave that much thought until recently. That's what I've spending most of my time with my therapist.

I've been going to the gym twice a week and have been working down what was my honey do list, but now I guess I just have to call it my to do list.

I've also signed up for a small group at my church to discuss boundaries. That starts in about 1.5 weeks.

I'm also trying to go out at least once every 2 weeks with my friends and I'm going to try and play in my company golf league at least once/month.

Those are things that I'm doing for me - which I guess is all that I can do to help our relationship.

I'm also working on my Dim/Dark strategy.

It was busy week at work. I had a dinner meeting last nite so we were out a resturant when my wife called for me to say good nite to the kids. I took the call and found someplace not too quiet to talk to my boys. Both boys asked where I was at. I told them that I was at a resturant. My youngest asked if there were boys and girls there. I said yes (the group I was with were all guys - I work for an engineering company), a small lie, but there there were girls at the resturant. I chatted with them for a while when suddenly my youngest pass the phone to my wife. I got off politely, but quickly.

She called back about an hour or so later. I didn't take the call at first but then she called right back. I thought there was a problem, but when I picked up, she just said "Oh, you're still out". I just said yes, is there something wrong. She said no, she just had a question about her ipod. I said I would just try and call her later and hung up.

She text me about 11:00 PM about my youngest having an accident in bed. I didn't respond. I thought about texting back at 1:00 AM when I got to bed, but was too tired.

I hadn't responded to her other email on Monday either where she said that she thought she was coming down with what my youngest had. Although at the end of the call on Monday nite, I did ask if she was feeling better.

She called me this morning at 7 AM. She told me that my youngest may be too sick for baseball today but would let me know later today. She made a comment about sending me a text last nite, but I didn't respond. I just said just let me know for sure later today and ended the call.

A short while later, I did send her a text to ask her to give my youngest a hug for me and that I hoped he felt better.

So I'm trying to keep a pace of answering about 1/2 the calls/emails/text messages - usually just for the ones that are specific questions or chit chat about the kids. Not sure if that's too cold/rude or appropriate. Any thoughts?

[AnotherNightmare]

So I'm trying to keep a pace of answering about 1/2 the calls/emails/text messages - usually just for the ones that are specific questions or chit chat about the kids. Not sure if that's too cold/rude or appropriate. Any thoughts?

CIPA,

It is getting back to normal in my situation, so I have been trying to catch up with everybody's situation. Also, take everything I say now with a grain of salt, because I have no personal experience handling the separation part.

For my taste, you are too available. When I was heading for D before my Retro weekend, I would not talk to my W at all during the time I was traveling. I called once a day (usually in the evening) to talk to the kids. And that is kind of the way I would handle your situation as well. I would not take any of her calls. I would not react to her texts or anything else. I would just let her know that you are working to get your life back and that you are really getting busy (friends, gym, work etc). If there is an emergency, you can let her know some kind of signal (e.g. let it ring twice, hang up and call again), but tell her to not abuse it.

If she cannot live without talking to you several times a day, she should commit to the M again. That is the message she needs to understand and you need to send to her through your actions, not words (!!!!).

My list of rules would look like this:
- Respond to one call or less a day (unless it is an emergency as indicated above)
- Handle all the kids' stuff during this one call
- Do not let her bait you into any kind of R talk (that includes her telling you about her day - you are not her therapist)
- Do not respond to texts
- Never call or text her unless it is an emergency
- Only call her to talk to the kids (when the kids ask you to talk to her, say no - you are busy, have to go, have something else to do)

AN

[confusedinpa]

AN

Thanks for checking in my situation again. I hope your wife is doing well

I have really been working on making myself unavailable. Typically, I only call her when she has the kids and I haven't gotten a call by 8:30 to say goodnite to them. She's complained that I was cold when I did talk to her to the point where she said that if that's the way I'm going to treat her that she can't see working on a relationship with me.

So now when I do talk to her, typically once a day, only when she calls. Typically it starts with something tactical about the kids (ie scheduling) but then moves into chit chat mode. That's when I try to get off the phone quickly, but politely

Most of her text/emails are chit chat/humor stuff, which is why I don't answer most of them. When she asks a question in a text/email related to kids, I wait at least 30 minutes to respond

As Stuck has suggested, I'm trying to do something different to shake things up. I just don't want to be so unavailable to my wife that I "punish" my kids as they at times ask my wife to call me as they want to talk to me.

My goal from 4 weeks when she moved out is to get to a point where my wife will want to go out and do something with me not related to the kids. That may be too soon but thought I would at least see how she's feeling

This separation thing sucks

[song]

This separation thing sucks

Yes it does, the depth of which simply cannot be imagined unless experienced. I've been told, and can believe, that it's worse than death or divorce, because there is no closure, no finality. But I am, as you seem to also be, committed to not being the one to end the relationship, and to do anything and everything possible to get it back on track. Even if it means letting go, dropping the rope, giving her the time and space she wants and needs.

[AnotherNightmare]

She's complained that I was cold when I did talk to her to the point where she said that if that's the way I'm going to treat her that she can't see working on a relationship with me.

My first thought was "So what?" She did not work with you on the R when you were trying to please her every day still living in the same house.

So now when I do talk to her, typically once a day, only when she calls. Typically it starts with something tactical about the kids (ie scheduling) but then moves into chit chat mode. That's when I try to get off the phone quickly, but politely

I would not take her calls except for in the evening to talk to the kids. Let them go to VM, and - if really necessary - respond with an e-mail. Try to be more of a mystery to her. If she complains about you not being accessible, tell her that it was her choice to separate.

My goal from 4 weeks when she moved out is to get to a point where my wife will want to go out and do something with me not related to the kids. That may be too soon but thought I would at least see how she's feeling

As long as you are available to her on the phone to talk about everything she wants to talk about, why would she want to go out with you?

[confusedinpa]

More craziness tonite. I almost didn't take the call, in hindsight maybe I shouldn't have.

We wound up meeting for my 3 year old's baseball game. I picked up my 7 year old (even though it was her nite) and dinner for us. The 4 of us ate. I thought I was being cordial - not too friendly, nor cold. I tried to stay very upbeat and focused on the kids. She had commented about how she tried to text me late last nite and call me but couldn't get a hold of me. I just told her that I got in late.

As it got later, it got much colder and my wife seemed to be battling the stomach bug that had striken my 3 year old earlier this week. She complained about being cold. I wound up giving her my jacket to wear. I really wanted to hug her and hold her close but knew that wouldn't be a good move.

Before we left (she to her apartment with the kids and me back home, alone), I gave both boys big hugs and kisses. I called them to say goodnite as well (when she picked up the phone, she ask that I keep it short as I had just seen then about 30 minutes earlier and it was late). After I said goodnite to the kids, she got on the phone. I just said goodnite to her as hung up.

About 1.5 hours later, she called up again. I really debated whether to answer it or not, particularly since I had a couple of beers already. I answered and she started about how she was very confused. I almost said WTF but let her explain. She said that she doesn't understand what I was doing as she wanted to know if I had changed my mind of wanting to continue to work on the marriage.

I told her that I still did, but reminded her that since she filed for divorce and left, I'm still trying to figure out what to do as I know I can't work on the marriage by myself.

She said that she felt that I gave up and asked what I was doing out so late on cinco de mayo and who I was with. I told her that I was out and got home late and didn't think I needed to tell her since she had left. She reminded me of what I said about how after she left, I asked her if she was going to just start partying. She said she was offended that I even asked as that was something she had never done nor would have considered. So she wanted to know if that was what I was doing and if I had given up.

I told her my feelings haven't changed and reminded her that I had told her before she left that this week I had alot of business meetings off site. I didn't tell her before this week because she had left for her space and time.

She then started saying that if we can't work on a relationship where we are "friends" she doesn't see how she would even consider going out on a date to take our relationship to that level. I told her that when she filed for divorce and left, I thought she wasn't even considering any of that. So I asked if that had changed. She didn't really answer, but sorta implied that if I was "attractive" to her, she would consider it. Really not sure what that means.....

She then said that if it wasn't for the kids, she wouldn't even want to spend anytime with me now with the way I've been treating her. She said it was more of what she had experienced prior to her dropping the bomb and I said that I had changed.

I told her that I really didn't know how I was suppose to treat her as I was trying to respect her boundaries since she left. She said that there is still alot of what we could talk about that wouldn't "intrude" on her boundaries. She said that she feels that we are at a point where we are starting over and trying to decide if we should start dating so we should act that way.

I had gotten the sense from tonite's call, she's looking to see if I really have changed and really feel that she is important to me. Not sure if this is a test or just BS or what.

Any thoughts?!?!?

One of the things that my therapist had suggested was to see if she would make some measurable effort to actually work on the relationship (i.e. go to counseling, on a date, etc.).

Craziness....

[volleydog]

I could be wrong but I'm guessing you are being more cold and distant than you think. I don't see anything wrong with being friendly when you are around her or talking to her on the phone. It's just that you don't want to initiate the talks but when she's engaging be friendly, someone she wants to be around.