Learning to Detach

[kjensen]

Thanks V,
I do see the preoccupied with 'caring' for himself right now. He needs someone to care for him and I can't be that person. It was very evident to me how self-focused he is-H doesn't really ask how I am much.

Everytime H goes on about something else that has gone wrong I keep thinking its karma coming at 'ya! But that is kind of mean.

I do think H cares about me, as much as he can for now. He has said often in the last several months(and yes this a be the 'nice guy' talking) that he'll always be my friend...
There are times when I don't know if I can always be his friend..if it stays this one-sided forever there just is no point.

I do feel bad for H and can see him suffering.

Peace- I've gotten the sense that when I withdraw from H sometimes he comes closer, but other times he has just remained distant and a bit angry..it seems to depend on where he is, where his A/OW relationshp is...so since H has withdrawn from his two male friends(that sounds sad!) and I have no idea about OW, I feel that if it doesn't make our R worse, I can remain his one-sided, non-mothering, validating friend. I think he needs one.

[peacetoday]

wow I think you did grat on that talk with you H
my last post was not in response to that post, but the one before
I guess we were posting around the same time yesterday
I would suggest to continue on that friendship path for now and see where it leads since your H is opening up

peace

[kjensen]

Update:
Lunch today was OK-no walking/talking. At the end of tonight's communication class we had to list our top 6 areas of conflict and rank them in order from least to hot to hottest. We weren't allowed to see our partner's list and we are supposed to have an active listening talk with each other before next week's class on our least hot topic. Earlier in class we were supposed to active listen about some minor conflict. My H muttered about all of our conflicts being "hot"-I agree. Currently my list is all pretty hot: the A/infidelity, the OW, honesty, decision to separate, not focusing on kids, not wanting to to work on marriage. H thought our lists will be the same- I really don't know. So we agreed that tomorrow we'll have our active listening talk...

I'm really nervous since this really goes against the DBing ideology. I'm worried that just bringing up any of these topics will backfire even if done with the active listening technique.
I leave Thursday for my San Diego conference and H will care for the girls. I don't want to leave with a negative experience first and foremost on his mind. I want H to miss me, if anything.

H did share some things tonight which I thought were insightful. He felt verbally/physically(corporal punishment) abused by his Dad. His hot spots are when he feels belittled, humiliated or shamed. He is definitely working on owning his feelings and is extrememly quick to point out when I step on his boundaries.

At one point in class tonight I was validating what H was saying and put my hand on his knee and he asked me to move it. That hurt. Also, we talked about the checking account I opened when we separated things(a bit) and I said I could close it and he said no, you'll need your own account... AAAAGGGHHHH I have this feeling of dread that H is totally of the mind to get divorced but hasn't felt able to say so. I feel like I'm being drawn into a false sense of security when H shares things, but once we hit these hot topics that starting the process to get divorced will be his big "reveal". These are my fears- I do have a sense of dread.

Still getting mixed messages. H will open up with some heavy feelings/memories but at the same time physically remove himself from closeness. We signed an agreement tonight to follow the active listening rules when discussing areas of conflict and were supposed to put down a weekly time to commit to having fun together. I thought for sure H would table that part, but he said "what about after this class we go to dinner?" I was surprised, and wondered what will happen when class is over in 3 weeks-out goes the agreement? So this is a mixed message to me.

Feel overall that H was more withdrawn from me today than yesterday..Is this the expected low after the high? Just more rollercoster riding?

[peacetoday]

K
Yes they withdraw after getting close
You are doing great though
I understand your fear about D
but dont bring up the word to your H
He is definitely unsure now and I doubt he is anywhere ready to make that move
most of these mlcer do not file immediately
they are too scared and on the fence about everything
mine did not file for over a year plus after bomb and he filed only after I told him too
so I wouldnt worry about that
it is a long process and you are moving thru it
the patience and the waiting is part of it
you can use this time to create the best M under the circumstances
which you are--you have been there for your H and no one could expect more from a spouse
you will heal though this process and have No regrets no matter what
about the active listening..that is a tough call
I dont think it would be a good idea to bring all your stuff to him
definitely listen and validate
maybe bring some lighter stuff on your part this time and see how that goies
this way he will trust you will not hammer him for his poor choices and OW ect
good luck
peace

[kjensen]

Thanks Peace.
Your words are always encouraging and supportive!
All night-I felt like I slept only a few hours-I kept having conversations in my head. I think the issue I'll talk about today is friendship and what it means to me. I'm supposed to just share my feelings and thoughts-using 'I' statements only. Seems like the most benign of my 6 issues I listed. Not sure what H will talk about..will find out soon enough.

H had shown up fairly 'early' to our house the last few days, but wasn't there today by the time I left this morning-not sure if that means anything or not-maybe he had a sleepless night too..

I wasn't going to bring up D. The infidelity/A/OW are my most 'hot' topics. Funny though how all of my issues seem inter-related.

[In Limbo]

KJ,

How did things go today? I'm not sure I could sit in a communication class with H right now. You are very brave and doing great.

Mixed messages are the worst, aren't they? I also feel your pain about H rejecting your hand. Changes in the physical interaction just hammer home the heart changes for me anyway.

I hope things went well today and that you have a good trip to San Diego. Maybe the time with the girls will be good for H and the girls both.

[kjensen]

Hi IL,
The communication class has actually been the best thing we've done together in a long time, hard-yes,but enormous strides are being taken with what we've learned.

So at lunch we talked about our least-hot 'hot topic'. Mine was friendship and feeling its been one-sided despite many, many statements by H that it was important to him and he 'would always be my friend'. H shared that from the bottom of his heart he believed we would always be friends and that I'd been his best friend as long as he can remember. He got teary several times during our talk.. He says he's been being distant b/c he doesn't know where the line is from what we were to 'just' being friends and he doesn't want to give me false hope or raise my expectations.

H wanted to talk about and share how he has felt his life become mundane and focused on the unimportant over the years. How we both focused on running a household and forgot to connect..How he wants to be more active, find a job that pays better than his self-employed income and increase his feelings of self-worth. Some of this I feel is a bit MLC-like, some is definitely more personal to him/us and related to the invisible downslide of our marriage as we focused on the'unimportant' things..

Overall it was an emotional and good discussion. We both did pretty well doing our active listening..

H did tell me that he realizes he hurt me and he never meant to and he doesn't know how to right this. That was nice to hear!
I told H I didn't expect things to be righted.(But of course, now I'm thinking of all kinds of ways he could make it 'righter'!! :-))

Mixed messages still abound! After all that sharing and closeness, I held H's hand for part of the conversation and he said he always liked that, but wasn't sure where it fit in our new relationship..I hugged him at the end..
Then he retreated to his office. He didn't get up to say goodbye or really look me in the eye(I won't see him until he and the girls pick me up at the airport Saturday night)...Ah the rollercoaster ride of life/MLC!

The physical withdrawal hits me hard too! I just try to remember its more about H's (dis)comfort level than about how he feels about me. I'm trying to keep my chin up, trying to remain calm, centered and patient-its going to be a long haul!

I hope H has fun with the girls too. It'll be the most time he's spent with them since he moved out in January. Thanks for your kind/supportive thoughts! I probably won't post much til I get back home-no computer with me.

IL: One thought about the EA/possibly turning into a PA with your H. I used to believe that once my H had a PA our marriage was over. In fact H said I used to say this a lot(I have NO recollection of this)! Once it happened and he told me it didn't really phase me. I think the EA bothered me the most and the PA was secondary/ Of course if I let my imagination go it does bother me alot, but its not a 'dealbreaker' like I used to think. You may find you feel different than you think you will if/when your H has a PA..keep an open mind for now.

[dl443322]

I think that you are doing really well. This really is a looonnnggg process so you have to try to not read into every word, look or response or you will drive yourself crazy.

And almost every time you or he move closer (ie: holding hands, sharing thoughts, etc.), he will pull back.

Hard as it is, dont take the phyical withdrawal personally. It is all part of the MLC.

Try to give him as much space as you can - that is really important.

Hang in there.

[In Limbo]

KJ,

Your comment about EA moving to PA really has me thinking. I guess part of what makes it so hard is that H is the only man I've ever been with and I'm the only woman he's ever been with (old school, no?). I honestly think that may be part of why EA isn't PA yet (he's concerned about not having enough experience). Well, that coupled with OW's history of abuse and fear of physical touch and the fact that she's still married and may not even be interested in PA. Who knows? But I will admit that I have thought at times that a one night stand would not hurt nearly as much as the PA, knowing he has said he "loves" her and he will "wait for her until he's 80 if he has to." I guess anything is possible, but dealing with PA right now seems overwhelming.

Don't you just love the "I never wanted/want to hurt you" line? Makes me want to scream...."THEN DON'T!!!!!" Or do you get the "what's wrong?" line? But as much as those make me nuts, it's the unguarded slip-ups when I see H before MLC that make me ache. One night about 2 weeks ago, I woke up with him staring me in the face, pulling me to him and kissing him. Then he said "are you ok?" and the look in his eyes had such pain and fear and concern that it made me want to cry. The next day he acted like it never happened. And he DOES NOT talk in his sleep - he was fully awake. Bizarre behavior. The next day is when suddenly he went distant and has stayed that way pretty much ever since. Go figure.

Anyway, have a great trip, try to take some time for just you and I'll be praying that your H will enjoy your girls, miss you and be convicted by what he's doing to his beautiful family.

Take care and keep your chin up!

[kjensen]

Thanks BM and IL!
Patience and looking down a long road are not my forte but I am doing my best. I guess its the small steps forward that keep my at it..

IL:
I have to say that my H was pretty much my "first" except for a one night stand in college. H had had more experience than me, but not much. My H said that he thought he was in love with the OW before he moved out and that he'd never felt this way about anyone(his heart would pound when he saw her..) and he never thought anyone like her(great body from perpetual working out) would be attracted to him. The attraction was so strong( just add "that it could no be denied")! Blahblah blah! Highschool stuff. The websites H checks out are definitely college-y male oriented T & A stuff.. He's in replay. Just remember our Hs in MLC are not the men we married..'temporary' insanity/regression.
My H didn't deal with abusive father/dysfunctional family stuff.. Your H has a lot of deaths of loved ones to deal with..We wait while they deal(hopefuly). Expect the unexpected..