Dead beaver's society... Well most of our "snakes" are getting some action, the beavers are all still dead...
I would suggest, right now, as she moves out, dont do anything to stop her or make her think about it. Nothing. Not even give her a look. Not a word. Warm, polte and friendly.
And you better start talking to some Italians to get your flirting tenchiques refreshed because your woman needs reassurance as a woman. Could be MLC. Who knows? Get yourself sexy and make her want you.
Patience. On your thread I can say it, on mine it is banned... K
She "is" putting a lot of effort into figuring herself out. One thing strikes me in your words, though... What happens when she does? Will she follow her feelings, too? Sounds like she just wants the textbook answer.
Do you still feel connected to her?
All can look right or wrong on paper, and not even be close in reality...
You're doing great!
Me-46, D-21, S15, S13
After many years w/my head in the sand... I FILED Divorced 6/2011
The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think.
Italians? I don't know too many Italians. Got suggestions to meet some to learn my flirting techniques?
MB - that is the $64K question isn't it? Do I feel connected? Yes. She is my soulmate. What I am wrestling with is how to really connect. I am wrestling with the idea that we may not be able to and while that would make me sad, it would sadden me more to be saddled with somebody I don't want to be around or doesn't want to be around me. I need that that connection. I told her that last night. I won't spend the rest of my life in a loveless marriage. We pinky swore we'd both would not accept less from one another. I told her how I think we made some mistakes by not listening to each other and that I won't accept that going forward. I told her that I want that kind of connection where if somebody asked me if I died and could come back, who I would come back as I would be able to answer "as her second husband" She wants the same.
I think she has a lot of resentment issues to work out. She tried to put me on a shelf while she pursued her career and that didn't work because I won't accept that. I won't accept it going forward either. I accepted too much of that in the past and it doesn't work. She has to figure that one out though. And I have to be patient while she does.
I don't think the marriage is over. I think we have an opportunity to build something great. We. I told her that. I told her that I'm not happy with the method, but that since we're here, I'm going with it. Embracing it. I told her she doesn't ask for help very well. I told her she'll need to learn how. She asked yesterday during the day, but at night wasn't able to. Wants to do it herself. Ok.
I mentioned how we both try to fix things. We need to learn to listen to each other without trying to fix things. Without trying to judge. I need that in my relationship with her. Without that, I won't be able to accept the relationship.
Interesting. I'm working to make that connection. I need to feel it. Or I need to realize it won't be there and walk away. But it is now do or die.
A challenge is always a good thing. It means there is possibility. It will be a hard road. For both of us. I mentioned that it seems odd to me that MC has us looking to the past while we really should be spending our time on the future. Once that's there, we can look to the past a bit more.
She still feels that being selfish is required. I haven't attacked that yet. I won't yet either. I think that time will come in the future. She has spoken highly of the MC which is good. I think she is putting a great deal of thought into how to make things work with us. She is asking the questions of how to regain that head over heals loving feeling. Hmm... I told her that it starts with reconnecting. Time. Knowing herself (she had mentioned she wanted to like the person in the mirror and I told her that until she does, we'll have to agree that I won't be able to fully know the new her). I think she's learning. She's trying to dig out of her depression and mindset and grapple with how to balance her life and desires and passions. She knows she is partly to blame for where we are and is trying to figure that out.
Patience.
What did you mean by textbook answer? Just for my clarity.
The connection seems to be the key to me. I cannot make any choices beyond that until that is stronger. Will I allow her to come back? I cannot let her come back easily. I know that. She has to "earn" it else it won't be worth it.
Long road ahead.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Do you think we should read the book together, MB? I mean, is that a good idea?
I did. I was reading it but not sure I'm ready to read that yet. I have some other things to deal with for now such as my wife moving out. Finding Italians to help me with my flirting. Cleaning out the garage. Taking care of the kids and helping them through this. Making sure my W is taking care of herself. Taking care of life in general. Figuring out how to date my wife (see comment about the Italians - thanks K. Looking for input; maybe a book? )
I'm interested in your thoughts MB. Please do post back when you get the time.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Lol, we have John over at separated and he is a ... BEAST!!!!
Italians are not my kind of guys but they have one characteristic, very difficult to resist:they make each and every woman feel VERY special, unique, pretty... I know it sounds naive but I swear they do that. I refused going to Italy for years while my BGF lived there because Italians made me feel awkard. At least the ones I knew (since I did go, I keep going back for more ). Book? No, no books that I know of. Maybe think of yourself when you first met your wife but while you were still not in a relationship... K
Sorry K, the book ref was for MB. She asked about an email and the email I got had a reference to a book about 100 great sex games.
Beast huh? Hmm... I don't swing that way, but maybe I just haven't tried everything.... (just kidding - no interest in GF's named John.)
I may have to take a trip to Italy then. A learning experience. Yeah, that's it. A learning experience.
UPDATE: W called this morning and brought me coffee. Nice of her. I think she meant to do it for son but I answered the phone. Still a nice gesture. She txtd later in the day and asked if I had gotten a Mother's day card for my grandmother yet (my mother died when I was a kid) and I said no but thanks for reminding me. I'll have to get one later in the day if I can find the time. She offered to get one for me instead. Very kind of her.
We'll have to see how the attitude goes when she goes back to school. She feels she has to be selfish to finish. We'll see. AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
AJ - I think we are both talking about a different email! I meant the one from MORT about reaping and harvesting. Didn't see any mention of sex games! Ha! That would have left me blubbering, not posting to you about it!
I have some other things to deal with for now such as my wife moving out. Finding Italians to help me with my flirting. Cleaning out the garage. Taking care of the kids and helping them through this. Making sure my W is taking care of herself. Taking care of life in general. Figuring out how to date my wife (see comment about the Italians - thanks K. Looking for input; maybe a book? )
Reminds me of that commercial, "Busy day? No, busy morning!"
Me-46, D-21, S15, S13
After many years w/my head in the sand... I FILED Divorced 6/2011
The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think.
I too got the one about 100 sex games - and deleted it immediately as he recommended if not in a sexual relationship <sigh>
I have seen the reaping and sowing one before, and it is taken from his book, good points about patience and not ripping up a plant to check the roots.
However, I have a bitter taste in my mouth from his program, because I followed it from Sept 08 to Jan 09, and it really set me back. A lot of his emphasis is on continual subtle pursuit, and in sitches where both sides are willing to work on the M, it's probably a good approach, but when one side has checked out, it just backfires in a big way. He does mention "knowing what time it is", and unfortunately it took me 4 months to determine it was time to try something else, and then I found Michele's books and this site.
Am I any closer to reconciliation? No Am I further away from reconciliation? Perhaps Has W taken any action towards D? No Has my resolve to keep my family diminished? No
But here's what I think is the big one.
Have I given W what she has asked for, i.e. space and time? YES MF's advice was to ignore that request and continue the subtle pursuit.
Time will tell, but I can say that I feel like I'm in a better place than I was in January when I started DB'ing, so it is having an effect on me, even if not on my M.
