A new thread, a new outlook.....

[Can it work]

That's the thing Mark. It's always easier to give advice than to take it.

Right now I'm in a position where I do feel quite good in myself and I'm successfully GAL as much as I can. I've accepted the fact that I can't change my wife but with that acceptance there's still frustration. In a way, if you're getting the outbursts and the mood swings you can gauge your progress in DBing. If you're only getting indifference it's often impossible to tell if any of your efforts are working or not.

You've not worried me about it as I was already fully aware of the meaning of my wife being indifferent. Hopefully, it is just a phase that will eventually play itself out. I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet anyway.

Even though you suspect your wife is with OM that doesn't mean that it's all over for you either. Some of the self-help material I read even saw it as a good thing in certain respects. I'll quote what it says:

"Someone on the rebound rarely mates for life with the next person they date. This probably won’t last long. In fact studies show that 90% of rebound relationships do not work out. So, if you play the odds and keep your cool while they are dating, you can position yourself very well for a reunion. On the other hand, if you freak out and make a ton of mistakes because you are in panic mode, then you are that much further from getting back together."

One of the other issues I have with my sitch is that I'm fairly sure there's not anyone else involved. That means the problem isn't that she's moved on to something fresh and exciting, it just means she doesn't want to be with me. That's a hard pill to swallow.

Still, I persevere in the hope that in improving myself my wife will once again come to see me as an attractive option. I'm still hurting inside about the separation at times but the pain has dulled considerably over time. That's definitely down to me GAL. I also now know that I no longer need my wife. I do still want her though. That's the main place you need to be in my opinion. I know can live a happy life without her but I'd prefer to have my family whole.

So, in a nutshell, I'm DBing as much as I can from day to day even though I have no indication if whether what I'm doing is working. I know in the early stages that what I was doing definitely wasn't working but now I have no idea. That's where I'm struggling at the moment.

Kev

[PositivelyMommy]

Kev,

I don't know your W but I do know just a little bit about people.

IMHO, I really don't think your W is indifferent. I see that she is trying very hard to build walls between you. To try to block you out, to not show any emotion, to not bond with you in any way. How do I know she is TRYING to do this and has not in actuality achieved it? I know because you don't get over a marriage in three months. You don't just FORGET your partner, your spouse as if you are changing clothes, unless she is an EXTREMELY shallow person. And from what I have read from you about her, I don't think she is shallow. A little detached perhaps, but not shallow. In fact, she loves all types of relationships with people and have a close relationship with her family so I doubt she is shallow.

So I am assuming what you are seeing is an act. An act to detach, to move away from the conflicting feelings she still has for you. Yes, they are conflicting because when the anger dies down, she still cares for you but she feels she can't live with you.

She needs to take this time to sort her feelings out, to sort her thoughts out to find what she REALLY wants. Time away and space to do some thinking is a good thing for her. She needs it. And you are an exceptional husband for giving those things to her which are the most difficult to give. FREEDOM.

If you love her, set her free. I think about this quote everyday.

She is definitely seeing the changes in you. Don't worry about it. Just keep being friendly, not pursuing. Eventually she will give you another thought. It is a very good thing that she is not rushing to D, it means she is still thinking things over.

[markhaving probs]

Kev,

As I know from my situation PM is great at giving advice, encouragement and telling it like it is. I read her response to you and it seems to hit the nail on the head.

Your efforts are truly brilliant in regard to your relationship with wee man. From reading your sitch and others I have come to realise my children are everything, and I wish when it mattered to my wife I spent more time with them, unfortunately I cannot turn back the clock.

Our children need our love, guidance and stability now and I look at your sitch for inspiration in trying to be a better father.

Good luck with your efforts to try and get that extra day for wee man, it shouldn't have to be like this and we all know there is no pain like it, but I am sure you will prevail in the end.

I am a lapsed catholic who is now starting to go back to church. I will light a candle for you and pray we all get to where we want to be.

Mark

[PositivelyMommy]

Hey Kev,

If you have a minute, can you visit my thread, pls? I just need a little moral support from you since I am having my counselling session tomorrow. I need my friends now to prop me up and face the truth and be my best DB self. Thanks so much for standing by me all these months!

[Can it work]

Thank you PM and Mark

Sometimes it helps to have things written down in front of you. People to show you that you're not the only one who believes that there must still be some semblance of hope in our sitch's.

PM, I truly hope that you are right in your assessment of my W. I believe she is a very good person at heart and not at all shallow. She's a great mother who misses Wee Man dearly every time he is with me. Her family and friends mean everything to her and she's incredibly close to all of them. Those were the things I really fell in love with her for in the first place. The one thing you said which I will comment on though is that I think she's been getting over this M for more than 3 months. Things weren't great for about the last year. I obviously just never realised at the time how bad it actually was.

At about this time last year my W cheated on me while she was out drunk. It was only a drunken kiss and she told me afterwards but I think in my heart that it was at the root of our problems. We then went on a big family holiday to stay in a log cabin on the shores of Loch Ness. It was a wonderful break but my W was already beginning to become distant. We never ML once between February and September. She then even admitted to me that in September it was just her last ditch effort to see if she could have feelings for me in that way again. Needless to say, it wasn't the best sex we'd ever had. That was when she truly gave up on our M I think. That's why I say I think it's taken her more than 3 months. I don't know if that makes any difference to what you said PM but I think it does mean that I have more work to do than just making up for 3 months worth of bad feeling.

Mark, you're completely right when you say that it's our children who matter the most. I'll be completely honest and say I don't find it easy to look after Wee Man on my own sometimes. He's only 19 months old so still needs a lot of hard work. I was an involved father even before the separation which I'm truly thankful of because otherwise I'd really struggle. I look forward to the day I can really interact with him though.

Trying to get that extra day turned out to be a bad idea Mark. I could have pushed the point but my DB Coach advised me against it. At the end of the day it was for me and not necessarily in the best interests of Wee Man. My W just wasn't willing to relent to even one more day. I wasn't willing then to turn it in to an argument where I may indeed get that extra day but lose some ground in my efforts to bond with my W in the process. As you need to make your W understand, kids should never be used as pawns in our own struggles.

Still, I have Wee Man tonight and my mum is also coming to visit after she finishes work so I intend to have an excellent evening. I know PM has already told you Mark as she has me many times in the past, live for today. If you can make even one day a good day you've achieved a great thing. Before long, one day will turn in to two and so on. Live life for the moment.

Kev

[JCJ]

Kev,

I really don't think your wife is indifferent. When I read back through your thread a couple of days ago to look at your history I remember thinking, wow this woman is still so engaged. She doesn't have the anger that typifies a WAW. One thing that particularly stands out was the card she gave you.

Just because your wife isn't spewing at you doesn't mean she isn't thinking about you. Anyway, it helps your healing to not have negativity spewed at you; I would count your blessings in that respect.

Now, if you feel that your situation has come to a bit of a stand still why don't you shake it up a little. Maybe, you could make a move now as you have been quiet for quite a while. I know the big theme on the board here is generally go dark but if I hadn't dropped in on my H every now and then we would have lost contact completely. I had to work to re-engage him and still am.

If I were you I would think about something you could do differently now. Think about some quality time not just interactions because of your son. I remember JamesJohn used to send his wife cards, just an example. If you no longer have any negativity, why don't you work on being friends?

[Can it work]

Hey there folks,

I'm having a good enough day today so far. I dropped Wee Man off at the child minder this morning once again. He loves being there because he gets to play with the other kids. It was my W who was supposed to be picking him up this evening but she asked me to do it because she's caught conjunctivitis. She asked if I'd take him home, feed and bath him so she keeps her physical contact with him to a minimum. We don't want him to be ill for his weekend away to see his uncle. When she phoned to ask if I'd do it she was very pleasant and grateful. I then went down to visit her to pick up the money to pay the child minder and let her know that I hoped she got better soon and even gave her advice on how to speed up her recovery. For those who don't know, a great way to aid recovery with conjunctivitis is to wash your eyes out regularly with baby shampoo. It works a treat. Anyway, I came away from her house feeling good. I'll be seeing her again when I drop Wee Man off this evening and then once more when I go to bath him tomorrow night. I'm going to do what I can to keep all these interactions as positive as possible.

PM and Mark, you've both mentioned how because my W isn't rushing in to a D is a good thing. It's not something I see as a good sign to be honest. I told my W when we first separated that we needed to wait 2 years before we could get a D. Turns out I was wrong but she had no reason to doubt me. Basically, if she knew she could get D sooner, I'm not convinced she wouldn't. I don't know for sure either way though so it's not something I'm going to dwell on. It's fine to leave it as it is for now.

J, thank you for your support. I agree with what you're saying about trying to make a move but my W hasn't been very receptive of late to anything I suggest. I did manage to get her to agree to a take away recently which was nice but I'm not sure what else I should be trying.

My DB coach also agreed that I should be looking to try and build up a friendship and I have been trying. Again though, she's not letting herself get too close. I'm very weary of having a set back in my DBing efforts. I'm never going to lose contact with my W because we still have Wee Man in common. I don't want to go back to the pursuing stage though. The way I'm playing it now isn't really causing any negative effects so I'd be tempted to roll with it for a while. I always knew this was going to take time and I needed to work on my patience because of that. Every now and again I am going to try and throw something in to stir up the mix but I have to be subtle about it. PM came up with a good suggestion about texting her to tell her if Wee Man has done something particularly funny. That would be a good start. The other thing which might help is to get my hands on some juicy gossip to share with her. What woman can resist gossip? My DB Coach suggested I try to be more like one of her girlfriends in our interaction. Sometimes the opportunities just don't arise though. A lot of our meetings are very brief. I would love to be at a stage where I can ask her out for lunch or something but I just don't think we're there yet.

I'm interested in how you think the card she gave me for my birthday stands out J? I was slightly disappointed in it if I'm being brutally honest. It was an off the shelf, standard card you could give to anyone and she only signed it with best wishes. It's nice that she thought to get me a card at all but I think it's more because she didn't know how to act rather than deliberately setting out to get me a nice card. It's her birthday next month so I have to think long and hard about what I'm going to do. I guess I'll just have to wait and see where my sitch is at that time.

Thank you all for your ongoing support.

Kev

[naej]

Kev,

I told my W when we first separated that we needed to wait 2 years before we could get a D. Turns out I was wrong but she had no reason to doubt me. Basically, if she knew she could get D sooner, I'm not convinced she wouldn't

Kev, I am sure that your wife would have checked out these facts for herself and not just taken your word for it.!
Any woman who felt the need to D would not sit back and take the word of the person she is trying to D.(well not unless your sharing brain cells)
So just maybe it isn't actually what she wanted or maybe she has checked and been advised that she actually needs some grounds!

I,m not sure about the card, definately don't go all out, but maybe just bide your time awhile until you get more of a feel for how things are.

[Can it work]

Naej,

I'm sure you're right that if she was desperate to get a D then she would look in to it herself. I know she's not desperate to get one but I don't know how she'd act if she had the option right there in front of her, right now. That's all I was trying to say.

Anyway, a bit of journaling is called for methinks!

I picked up Wee Man from the child minder again last night and took him home to get him fed and bathed due to my W not being too well. When I took him down to my W's house I asked how she was feeling and basically told her I hope she improves soon.

I am planning to go back to her house tonight to bath him so I can see him again before he goes away on his holidays tomorrow. I asked her what time she normally baths him so I can aim to come down for then. She told me about 6.30-7.00 so I said that's fine, I'll go home and have my dinner after work and then pop down. It's what she said next which shocked me somewhat. She said that she would have offered to cook my dinner but if she wasn't feeling much better it's unlikely she'd even be cooking for herself. I told her that was ok but I wouldn't want to put her out when she was feeling off and I was more than happy to grab myself something at home before I come down. I then gave wee man a kiss and a cuddle and left.

That's the first time she's offered anything like that. I know that she didn't really offer since she basically told me she wouldn't be doing it afterwards but the thought was still there and I see that as a good baby step. Looking back, possibly I could've offered us both a take away to save her the bother of having to make anything but I want her to make a move this time. I don't want to be the one always suggesting these things. Plus, I actually have dinner plans with some friends tonight. I only told her I would go home after work and have some dinner so she didn't think I was going to be sitting at home, twiddling my thumbs till I came down.

So, I feel a bit more invigorated today. It helps that it's Friday too! I've no plans to go out this weekend but I'm hoping the weather improves a bit so I can get out cycling. Not been in a while. I also lost about 3lbs this week so life is looking up. Long may it continue!

Kev

[JCJ]

Why don't you cook her something that she can heat up and take it with you... small lasagne, casserole or something. Don't suggest it, just do it.