Newly separated...spouse left, 3rd thread

[antlers]

It's just that, the validation I've been giving her is pissing her off! When I say 'I can understand how you would feel that way', she would respond with "you have no idea how I can feel this way"! She says that my responses are "nauseating and disgusting"! They are rather different from what the old me would have said! I'm kinda up a stump with this?

I used phrase that too much as well. So learn to say it differently.
"I can understand how me doing ___________ would make you feel that way."
"Then help me understand how you feel because I truly want to know."
Find your own words, make sure you are looking in her eyes when she talks and sometimes don't worry about a response just listen. Don't try to fix anything. You can handle it.
Cheers

Coach! I always enjoy reading your posts!
Keep in mind, these conversations, when they happen, are over the phone or texting. Do you think it'll still work...using this approach... over the phone, or texting?

[antlers]

I agree - if something doesnt work you need to do something else. I just meant not to toss validation out of the window, just try a new approach to validation.

I shared my experience with my H to show you how a small shift in words can make a huge difference. It was merely an example and not related to your situation.

I cant say the right way to validate her because I am not in your situation. You may have to try many approaches before you find one that is productive. I just meant as a whole, validation is important so dont give up on it totally.

She might be testing you in a way to see if you really will practice validation for the long haul. That is why I suggest not to give up on it, just tinker it so its a tool that will be helpful instead of harmful.

Doing something else sounds appropriate here! I understood that you were suggesting a new approach to validation! I don't want to stop validating.

And I appreciate it...I need and appreciate all the help I can get.

I agree. 'Stop doing what doesn't work, and start doing what does'...maybe trial and error until one is found that works. I won't give up on validation.

Maybe...she's usually pretty pissed though! I'll continue, when conversations do take place...I'll just do it differently. I want it to be helpful and not harmful.
Things don't look or feel good right now.

[CityGirl]

Things dont look or feel good because you are not detached. Once you are detached whatever she says or does wont have any effect on you. You are worried she is pissed so you are not detached.

When there is so much anger on her end nothing you can do will be right or helpful in her eyes. Go as dim as possible. That is not to punish her but to create space so you can detach. No sense adding more fuel to the fire. If she wants to be pissed then let her be pissed but you dont have to be the object of her anger if you remove yourself from that equation. Let her deal with that all on her own, its nothing you can fix or change right now and trying to do that will only push her further away.

[xalelle]

Hi Antlers,

Trying to catch up, sorry I havent been on here for a while, trying to focus on my own M, but because I know I slipped after my first time around and my M is on a little shakey ground right now, I want to make sure I share what I (should) know with those who can use it - repeating it for you helps me relearn my own lessons.

Some of this may have already been said, but I think if it was it is worth repeating.

Re-read DR on Validating - understand what it really means. DO NOT say sorry, or sorry you feel that way.. THAT IS NOT VALIDATING. That is persuit/pressure. You are putting blame - no matter on you or her, blame is not where you want to be. She has enough blame as it is, right or wrong.

Try things like "I understand what you are saying", "I understand how what I did may contribute to these feelings", but not sorry. Yes, we LBS have to understand our part of the sitch, and correct it, but we show we are sorry by actions, not words. Just listen to what she says, and if you see how you can be better, and want to be, just act, dont tell.

Re: her anger - I agree with everyone here, the anger is actually a good sign - if she had really let go of you, there would be no anger (unless you are pressuring, which will cause anger just on its own) - anger is quite often guilt turned inside out - and be ready for this. As you continue to improve, and W starts to think maby it is for real, for some time she will get even angrier - the WAS cry of "why now" is common place, and, if you think about it, somewhat deserved. While we LBS may not have seen it, and may think it unfair that our WAS dosnt understand that we didnt see it, to the WAS they have been screaming at you for a long time what was wrong, and we just blissfully continue on without responding. Give her the time to get past "why now", and you may find that at some point she gets to "why not now".

Re: dropping the rope/going dark. Man, I know these are scarry thoughts. Going dark was terribly hard for me, since each and every word, text, email, anything was what I hung my hope on. The problem is during this time even positive messages are not something to hang your future on, the WAS will cycle back and forth quite a bit, and nothing you can do or say will make it better, other than keep working on yourself.

Be carefull with dark - I think it may be necessary in your sitch, and as there are children involved (I think, sorry, been away for a whle) there will be absolutely necessary interactions. Be very very dim. Dont call her, and if she im/text/calls you, lovingly ignore at least some of them. If she contacts you in need, then you be there for her, but if she contacts you just to dump on you, you dont want or need that, it only makes keeping PMA up and improving harder.

The only reason I caution is when dark we have to be sure to not be un-caring. And our guts tell us to care we should reach out and tell our S we care. NO NO! Let her reach to you when she is open to your caring - right now the fact that you care and want to do things for her just makes her angry, gives her mind the excuse to burry you under the negative feelings that have built up over time.

RE: Dropping the rope. I learned the very very hard way, this is something you can think about, plan about, say you are going to do, but is almost impossible to do as a concious act. During my previous sitch and seperation, I thought I had dropped the rope several times, when I really had not. The day I really dropped the rope, was the day that I said to myself "I love my W, and I want a new and better R with her, but if she is not open to that, if what has happened is too much for her, then I have to let her go. I have to find my own happyness without her, I have to seperate my hurt from the pain she is inflicting on herslef and me. I need to go on, for me, and my children. I have to be strong and be the man that my W thought I should be, even if it is not for her.

It was not really a concious decision to drop the rope, but more a concious decision to be ok - which was probably the hardest decision of my life. Part of you will feel like you are giving up the fight, but truely, do you want THAT fight? To battle against unfair odds, for something that truely was not good? No. So in a way you are giving up the fight, and opening yourself to a new future.

The funny thing is once you actually reach this point, often things begin to turn around. I think part of this is your confidence returns, and you begin to really be that better person you have been trying to be. And your WAS sees this. In my sitch, the day I truly hit this point.. the very next day W started pulling me back. Our reconciliation was completely at her driving. Yes, I made somewhat of a farewell speech, and in our sitch there were some things from her side keeping us apart too, so I had to let her know that should she ever decide that she wanted to reconsider our M, that what had happened had happened and I could and already had forgiven. But that was the only thing I shared other than essentially "releasing" her. And not crying about it, not begging, and even (at least outside) looking like I meant it - and that was only because even though it was terribly painful, I did mean it - I knew that day that the future would be ok, with or without W.

It is very hard for us LBS, especially when we know (thanks to DB) our part in the sitch, to allow ourselves to be ok! It feels like a betrayal, like we are not willing to take the punishment due us. You MUST get past this, forgive yourself, and be ok!

So, go dark for a bit. Think about how hard you are holding on to the rope, and try to release it a bit. When you are ready, you will drop it. And along the way, you may find W starting to pull on that rope a bit, and when she finds no resistance (you are not holding so tight on your end) she may pull harder.

[dburt]

Great stuff! You will be fine with or without her, let it goooo!

Burt

[fb2]

"And along the way, you may find W starting to pull on that rope a bit, and when she finds no resistance (you are not holding so tight on your end) she may pull harder."

This happens VERY RARELY so don't get your hopes up!!!

The WAW will find EVERY remote reason under the sun to blame the LBS for the 'sitch'. Even if you did 'drop the rope' and go 'dim' they will say: see "I made the right decision, he really doesn't care'. Instead of 'drop the rope' I'd say 'hope for best, prepare for the worst'. Assume the WAW is gone forever - find one sentence to describe why they walked away and then forget about them and work your way up from there.

[antlers]

Things dont look or feel good because you are not detached. Once you are detached whatever she says or does wont have any effect on you. You are worried she is pissed so you are not detached.

When there is so much anger on her end nothing you can do will be right or helpful in her eyes. Go as dim as possible. That is not to punish her but to create space so you can detach. No sense adding more fuel to the fire. If she wants to be pissed then let her be pissed but you dont have to be the object of her anger if you remove yourself from that equation. Let her deal with that all on her own, its nothing you can fix or change right now and trying to do that will only push her further away.

I'm probably not as detatched as I want to be, but I do feel like I'm doing better. Some days are better than others, and some times during the day are better than other times during the day. I want to continue to detatch. We've had no contact at all for 5 days, and I'm OK with that for right now. I want to get completely lovingly detatched.

I agree that there is so much anger there on her end that nothing I say or do is gonna be right or helpful. Explain to me, please, what you mean by 'going as dim as possible'? I want to do whatever is necessary to detatch. I don't want to add any fuel to the fire. I really appreciate your insight. Thanks.

[antlers]

Hi back!

I appreciate help from everybody, especially those who are more knowledgable about these things than I am. Mutually beneficial situations are sometimes really good...aren't they? I hope you and yours are doing better.

This stuff is always worth repeating...thanks.

Ok, I'll read it. I get a lot of conflicting advice on this topic...what I've been doing isn't working. She's got a lot of anger, resentment, and hurt.

Actions do speak louder than words. Coach says this..."I can understand how me doing_______________would make you feel that way." What do you think about that? I do want to be better, and I'm working on it.

Not much pressuring going on here. I understand why she left, and I was caught completely off guard. I hope she gets past her anger, and whatever else...and at some point gets to "why not now"...before she files for a divorce.

I just want to detatch to the point that I don't think about her anymore. That's not giving up. I just want to start living again, and enjoy our kids when they're with me, and enjoy my life. I'm having fum with this co-ed softball.

Not many interactions are really necessary right now, even with our kids. Maybe going dim will provide me with space to detatch further...as CityGirl said.

I doubt I'll be uncaring. Might be a while, if ever, before she reaches out to me when she is open to my caring!

"I love my wife, I want a new and better relationship with her, but if she is not open to that, if what has happened is too much for her, then I have to let her go. I have to find my own happiness without her, I have to seperate my hurt from the pain she is inflicting on herself and me. I need to go on, for me, and my children. I have to be strong and be the man my wife thought I should be, even if it is not with her." I just wanted to write down those words for myself...I'm not there yet!

I want to be OK too! But I don't want to give up on the marriage.

What you say here makes sense, and I believe it...I'm just not there yet.

It is hard for me to allow myself to be OK. I have a lot of regrets, and guilt, and remorse for the non-compassionate behavior that I displayed toward the one that I cared about the most. I'm willing to take the punishment, I just need to continue to forgive myself, and learn from my mistakes...which were many.

OK. I'll try to release and detatch further. Thank you for your time and effort. Please continue, and good luck to you and yours.

[antlers]

Great stuff! You will be fine with or without her, let it goooo!

Burt

I'm not there yet Burt! But I'm working on it.

[antlers]

"And along the way, you may find W starting to pull on that rope a bit, and when she finds no resistance (you are not holding so tight on your end) she may pull harder."

This happens VERY RARELY so don't get your hopes up!!!

The WAW will find EVERY remote reason under the sun to blame the LBS for the 'sitch'. Even if you did 'drop the rope' and go 'dim' they will say: see "I made the right decision, he really doesn't care'. Instead of 'drop the rope' I'd say 'hope for best, prepare for the worst'. Assume the WAW is gone forever - find one sentence to describe why they walked away and then forget about them and work your way up from there.

She blames me for it all, and she's right. I screwed up bad. I do hope for the best. She walked away because of my lack of compassion...that pretty much sums up all of the mistakes and bad decisions that I made. I'm working a lot on compassion...I'm learning that it's the lifeblood of families, and encompasses so much!