Just to throw in my two cents worth. I know how I felt as an AWAW and I would say that if you are not getting positive results by the particular validations you are giving her......then that is a cheeseless tunnel and you need to stop. Why continue to do something that pisser her off and she has even told you that it makes her sick? That is backfiring on you, and Michelle says stop doing what doesn't work. As somebody told me the other day, when we continue to do the same thing and expect a different reaction, that is insanity.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Just to throw in my two cents worth. I know how I felt as an AWAW and I would say that if you are not getting positive results by the particular validations you are giving her......then that is a cheeseless tunnel and you need to stop. Why continue to do something that would piss her off and she has even told you that it makes her sick? That is backfiring on you, and Michelle says stop doing what doesn't work. As somebody told me the other day, when we continue to do the same thing and expect a different reaction, that is insanity.
In some cases, I think the "way" a H tries to validate the feelings of his W or her mother or whoever is involved.......could appear to make him look weak and not very manly. If you are not sure what to say other than you can understand why they feel that way......(which does make you look like the bad guy), you can just say that you're sorry they feel that way about it....and leave it at that. But don't sound pitiful in your tone of voice. At this point of the R it may be best to even sound a tad bit "aloof" b/c you have tried to validate and it has slapped you back in the face. If that does not do any better, I suggest not saying anything at all.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Just to throw in my two cents worth. I know how I felt as an AWAW and I would say that if you are not getting positive results by the particular validations you are giving her......then that is a cheeseless tunnel and you need to stop. Why continue to do something that would piss her off and she has even told you that it makes her sick? That is backfiring on you, and Michelle says stop doing what doesn't work. As somebody told me the other day, when we continue to do the same thing and expect a different reaction, that is insanity.
In some cases, I think the "way" a H tries to validate the feelings of his W or her mother or whoever is involved.......could appear to make him look weak and not very manly. If you are not sure what to say other than you can understand why they feel that way......(which does make you look like the bad guy), you can just say that you're sorry they feel that way about it....and leave it at that. But don't sound pitiful in your tone of voice. At this point of the R it may be best to even sound a tad bit "aloof" b/c you have tried to validate and it has slapped you back in the face. If that does not do any better, I suggest not saying anything at all.
Sandi
Your two cents worth are valuable and appreciated, as is any advice that I can get from people here! Thanks! I need some help! So, I need to stop validating the way that I have been? Just say "I'm sorry you feel that way about it"? And leave it at that?
I'm not feeling very good about things right now.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Validation is important for communication with anybody. And the thing is, most of us practice validation all the time with everybody we come in contact with. Its second nature and fairly easy to do when the R is not tense.
If you were doing some medical task at work and somebody suggested a better way to do it, chances are you wouldnt take is as negative. You would think a co worker was sharing info and wanting to help you out. That is because the R between you and your co worker isnt tense and strained.
When the R is tense and strained (you and W) we tend to pick apart each conversation. Its hard for it to feel natural because things are so "messed up" between you and W.
IMO and experience in dealing with my H I stopped saying "I am sorry you feel that way" and instead would say "I can understand how you would feel that way". The word "sorry" is tossed around too easily and sometimes, for me, I would prefer to have understanding than anything else.
My H has built such a wall around him due to his guilt. Anytime I would mention that in a R talk he would say "sorry you feel that way" and it used to really piss me off. Its only recently that he started saying "I can understand how you feel that way" and it really made a huge difference. Saying your sorry is one thing but showing the other person that you really have thought about it and can understand the other persons point of view. It doesnt mean you agree with it, but at the very least you do understand how they can feel that way.
Like that whole thing you and your W had about the kids and you calling them on her time with them. You told her you disagree which right away made her defensive and instead of saying "I understand" you said "sorry you feel that way". It didnt offer much validation.
You can still validate and have boundaries and not sound pathetic. My H was furious that for months and months I would nto let him come over. To this day he still whines about it. I did validate those feelings by telling him I understand how that might have been hurtful to him but I also told him that as long as he was with OW he wouldnt be coming here. I let him know I understood his frustration but kept my boundary clear. If he wanted me to change my boundary he had to do something different as well. He didnt so my boundary needed to stay firmly in tact. But keeping my boundary in tact didnt mean I couldnt validate his feeilngs even if they sounded crazy to me.
It's just that, the validation I've been giving her is pissing her off! When I say 'I can understand how you would feel that way', she would respond with "you have no idea how I can feel this way"! She says that my responses are "nauseating and disgusting"! They are rather different from what the old me would have said! I'm kinda up a stump with this?
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
It's just that, the validation I've been giving her is pissing her off! When I say 'I can understand how you would feel that way', she would respond with "you have no idea how I can feel this way"! She says that my responses are "nauseating and disgusting"! They are rather different from what the old me would have said! I'm kinda up a stump with this?
Not to beat a horse to death here, but my reasons for saying what I did was b/c you said you "had" been doing what you said in the above quote. Michelle says that if is doesn't work......stop doing it and try something else. Therefore, I do not think I would say, "I'm sorry" but would just say, "It't too bad you feel that way" and leave the "sorry" out of it. Now if that sounds too cold or uncaring, or if that statement would produce a worse response than before, then I'd suggest you say nothing and maybe only nod your head and just let her talk. If a person is going to slam dunk you everytime you try your best to validate them, I for one am a firm believer in stopping it. If she "wants" it, she has a very poor way, and very poor manners in responding to what you are trying to do. As you said, the old you would not have tried, so unless she feels that it is too little too late.......and even with that thinking, you can't win. So, IMHO, hold your head up and keep your dignity. Don't say you are sorry b/c I think she is seeing you in a negative light when you do that. She needs to respect you and if trying to show compassion by saying that you understand why she feels like she does......and that only ends with a greater degree of anger.....then don't go that route. I think I know where City Girl is coming from b/c that is the first thing we usually say in DBing, but you have been at this for a while and it ain't working. So, do another type of 180 and see what happens.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I agree - if something doesnt work you need to do something else. I just meant not to toss validation out of the window, just try a new approach to validation.
I shared my experience with my H to show you how a small shift in words can make a huge difference. It was merely an example and not related to your situation.
I cant say the right way to validate her because I am not in your situation. You may have to try many approaches before you find one that is productive. I just meant as a whole, validation is important so dont give up on it totally.
She might be testing you in a way to see if you really will practice validation for the long haul. That is why I suggest not to give up on it, just tinker it so its a tool that will be helpful instead of harmful.
It's just that, the validation I've been giving her is pissing her off! When I say 'I can understand how you would feel that way', she would respond with "you have no idea how I can feel this way"! She says that my responses are "nauseating and disgusting"! They are rather different from what the old me would have said! I'm kinda up a stump with this?
I used phrase that too much as well. So learn to say it differently. "I can understand how me doing ___________ would make you feel that way." "Then help me understand how you feel because I truly want to know." Find your own words, make sure you are looking in her eyes when she talks and sometimes don't worry about a response just listen. Don't try to fix anything. You can handle it. Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
It's just that, the validation I've been giving her is pissing her off! When I say 'I can understand how you would feel that way', she would respond with "you have no idea how I can feel this way"! She says that my responses are "nauseating and disgusting"! They are rather different from what the old me would have said! I'm kinda up a stump with this?
Not to beat a horse to death here, but my reasons for saying what I did was b/c you said you "had" been doing what you said in the above quote. Michelle says that if is doesn't work......stop doing it and try something else. Therefore, I do not think I would say, "I'm sorry" but would just say, "It't too bad you feel that way" and leave the "sorry" out of it. Now if that sounds too cold or uncaring, or if that statement would produce a worse response than before, then I'd suggest you say nothing and maybe only nod your head and just let her talk. If a person is going to slam dunk you everytime you try your best to validate them, I for one am a firm believer in stopping it. If she "wants" it, she has a very poor way, and very poor manners in responding to what you are trying to do. As you said, the old you would not have tried, so unless she feels that it is too little too late.......and even with that thinking, you can't win. So, IMHO, hold your head up and keep your dignity. Don't say you are sorry b/c I think she is seeing you in a negative light when you do that. She needs to respect you and if trying to show compassion by saying that you understand why she feels like she does......and that only ends with a greater degree of anger.....then don't go that route. I think I know where City Girl is coming from b/c that is the first thing we usually say in DBing, but you have been at this for a while and it ain't working. So, do another type of 180 and see what happens.
Sandi
I haven't been saying "I'm sorry you feel that way about it", so I don't know what kind of results it will produce? I'd at least like to try that first, before going straight to "it's too bad you feel that way about it"...what do you think? These conversations have been over the phone and texting also.
What do you think?
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
