I don't think your have high expectations at all Maria. I think they are average at best.
I mean an average person (man or woman) would want to have sex with someone he loves or is attracted to after 7 months. You've laid in the bed together. That's such a primal connection to another person and relationship. But then when we were seperated and I occasionally got the longer hug, I could tell my H was still attracted to me....there was something between us (wink, wink) know what I mean.
Your not looking for a Harlequin Romance Novel (don't know if they have those there but they are over the top here) your looking for something.. anything and there's not really been anything since the beginning of his coming back.
Have I missed something? What has he done? I know he went to MC a few times but those were not productive. Your "date" that you placed has come and gone.
Your H is overwhelmed by his life and doesn't know how move forward. The pressure from work and family has him frozen so he's an ostrich....(puts head in sand and hope it all goes away)
Maria...your spinning and cycling and that's not healthy. I know your afraid, but last summer you weren't afraid.... why are you now? Your the same person with the same abilities.
Your situation is no different now than it was before then. Nothing has changed except for a few moments your H seem to have a change of heart, but he does not.
There's a book here and now the made it into a movie...it's called "He's just not that into you". I know this is going to sound harsh and it isn't meant to.. but you've been saying it all along too.
If he wanted to be in this marriage he would be putting forth more effort because if a man is into you.... How do they act? Not like your H.
I say all this with love to you because frankly, I would like to give your husband a swift kick in the @ss, even though he is a nice person.
Don't you settle for this type of relationship Maria or you'll be doing this for the rest of your life.
And honestly, if he ever spews like that again could you say to him "how about a nice cup of shut it stew?"
Hang in there girl!
Last edited by sandycay; 05/02/0903:48 PM.
M:47 M:18 D16, S19 1st S 1/08-5/08 Reconciled/May 7, 2008 Left again Nov 9, 2009 I Filed: Nov 17, 2009 Final: April 14, 2010 EX walked away from kids too
Hey K, why so mad? I dont mean to 'push your buttons' - we are just trying to help.. and I do think you have had massive resentments toward him that he hasnt helped you resolve. But I was thinking of Cyrenas posts.. even when her H was back, he was still distant and had alien eyes for 6 months I think she said.
Oh well.. prepare to be amazed..have you ever read this lady? Susan Miller shes very good!
"This month will be special for any sort of creative effort, whether it is work-related or for yourself, as a hobby or personal pleasure. This comes as a result of the Jupiter and Neptune conjunction on May 27, the first of three exceedingly rare meetings of these two plants in 2009. The next two conjunctions will occur July 10 and December 21, then not again until 2022.
With Jupiter, a planet of financial gifts, linking to Neptune, patron of the arts and your guardian planet, you are about to see a breakthrough - artistic, emotional, or even financial."
well, look forward to that then! We need somthing to go our way hey, at last.
oh Ali, you make me laugh so much, do you trawl all the astrology sites til you find one that is what you want to hear/see?
Joking but you do seem to read so many different ones, when do you find the time. I guess if you study in depth as you obviously do you then it's akin to reading books. Do you wear an anorak and carry a notepad and pencil.
Oh I must go to bed got the Saturday sillies I think. Am I forgiven?
H came by today after calling to announce it as always. We were doing homework with the kids and that lasted a few...hours wo we were still doing that when he arrived around 13:00. He finished homework with them while I finished lunch. We ate together and then I went to rest because my back has been killing me. My D came to snuggle and he came too (D between us) because she asked him too.
His project finished yesterday night, he had shaved and cut his hair and looked good. He was friendly and so was I. If I had approached him warmer I bet he would mirror my behavior.
BEFORE Ali asks why didnt I, I will answer because I didnt feel like it. And before someone else asks why I didnt, I answer because I dont feel close to him at all. I dont see him, I dont share my everyday life with him, he doesnt help out with my everyday issues and makes no effort/initiative to break the cycle and I am NOT willing to do it casue it will get us back to where we were 2 years ago. Unless he steps up, I am polite and friendly and that's it.
I took the kids out, had a lovely afternoon and we are getting ready for the week ahead. K
ok i will ask....polite and friendly, that is what we are with friends and family. we should be something different with our spouse. the one we love....unless of course.....
John, no use asking. You arent getting any answers from me...
It seems that Al has given me all the asnwers, I think Ali you should charge for this, I got a new offer tonight for a business partnership and it seems you are right once again. And since you have done my chart, I swear everytime I hear something you have already warned me about I am thinking maybe you should start charging again...
And yes, end of May as you said is still on for me too... K
I was just clearing out my MLC files and saw this really old post from Newman via Phoenix (via RCR). Newman (who was married to Phoenix) was an MLCer who subsequently returned to Phoenix after an A and S and later posted about his MLC and gave advice on the boards. I don't know if it will be any help at all, but if not just ignore- no agenda in my posting it, I just thought it would help me in piecing when I got there (oh well!)
Originally Posted By: Newman
Hi Dreamcatcher, let's talk about sex!
Intimacy is a really difficult hurdle to cross over after an affair- for both of you; yet it is so incredibly important. After my W had detached and was moving on into building her life I needed to pursue her. In fact she left for California saying that she wasn't sure she would ever be back. I took some initial measures to end my affair and then drove to California to get her (win her) if I could.
Thinking ahead to how this might play out I was bound with fear over the idea of sexual intimacy. Fearful questions began to pour into my mind about 'performance'-
What if I couldn't perform in this area?
What if my heart became so heavy with guilt that I just couldn't?
What if I experienced a failed erection?
What if I treated her 'differently' during lovemaking and it showed?
Will she be thinking of my betrayal while we made love? What if a third person was in our bed – in mind but not in person?
What if my libido just up and took a hike elsewhere while I was with her?
Any of these and hundreds more could damage our already very fragile relationship.
I don't mind admitting that I took measures before hand and spoke to my medical doctor. He gave me some samples of Cialis to bring along with me. The stuff is supposed to work for up to 36 hours but if you don't have ED- It lasted 72 hours on me- whoa!
But most important to me in all of this was that I couldn't just have sex anymore. Sex was what I had going with my affair partner; I couldn't bring this into my relationship with my wife. Between the sheets needed to be expression; it needed to be intimate. It needed to be lovemaking where the ecstasy of it was not in a physical climax but in the touching of each others hearts. Where we would feel the heart-rending love of the other and listen for their heartbeat. Where the climax of passion can only be expressed in breath that breathes "I Love You" and my all is you. Lovemaking with such afterglows that breathless in each others arms brings a quiet comfort of knowing. Holding. Peace. Where the world disappears and it is only her and me. Mere sex was out of the question. This had to be real.
Originally Posted By: Dreamcatcher
Instead, he bought a motorcycle and other little things, and is spending most of his time working on his car. I don't want to push him, but I am feeling frustrated. I sent him a quick email today asking him why he came home and if he is willing and/or able to meet my needs. I expressed feeling as if the M is the same as it was before he left. My H wrote back and said he feels the same and that we can talk later. I told him initially that I thought we might need more time apart for him to work through withdrawals and to work on himself. He didn't think so. Now I am wondering if my expectations are too high, what should I/we expect, is it normal for both of us to feel discouraged, should I expect him to work on helping me heal from the affair at this time? I'd love any personal experiences of this phase and any useful tools.
I do understand this one. You see dear one, it really wasn't about 'the affair' to him although at this time in your relationship it stands out as most prominent. Your questions may be surrounding his betrayal, the affair, the other woman; but his are running on a much broader level inside of him. He is questioning his reason, his existence, his lost integrity, and feelings of guilt (or worse- a lack of them), regret, and even life itself.
In MLC we know what to do when depression strikes- up the self medication. His self-medication was in an emotional and physical affair(s). But he can't go there now; there is no typical means of relief for him that he used to resort to that he can now implement. Keeping himself busy- just out of sight; but not too far- working on the car and motorcycle is a means of getting quiet while stilling his mind.
I took up all kinds of work projects in our house and yard during this time too. I didn't want to even remotely appear to be on my computer with my affair partner or thinking about her. Along with guilt, remorse, regret, and self-hatred for my prior actions was the constant feeling of failure and depression. Old means of escape that I used during my midlife foray could no longer be used. I couldn't escape and it was driving me mad!
The biggest enemy during this time is ambivalence to the marriage recovery. The cycle between wholehearted commitment to making it work and total ambivalence to it ever working is a constant companion to both of you. He is likely already sworn to "keeping no secrets" from you, yet his inner turmoil is still something that he likely cannot speak freely about- thus even this becomes troublesome because he is keeping it secret (something he's sworn to not do).
The most troublesome thing I think any midlife man can contend with is the need to sort through his inner issues concerning his life while dealing with recovery from an affair. These affairs bring untold turmoil into an already troublesome transition. A man that has not been involved outside his marriage would find all of his time consumed with these issues. A man that did get involved now has these issues plus his betrayal to contend with- that's all his time plus more!
More than this though is that while he must focus on life and what brought him here to this point is that his focus is distracted by the need to answer for his affair. The terrible aloneness in all of this is that we men assume that no one can understand how little the affair really meant to us and that our real issues have very little to do with the OW we allowed into our lives. The world at large puts the emphasis on the betrayal and affair. We question 'when will anyone see me in all this' and buddy – you are completely alone! We need to answer for ourselves how it is that we could give away our affection so easily to our affair partner, what made us so vulnerable, why did it feel like real love? Why do I feel like hell now that it's over? Will I ever feel 'love' in our marriage?
Dreamcatcher, I don't think he is isolating himself to simply endure withdrawal from his affair partner; I believe that he is also earnestly seeking answers for some of these important things. I hope he feels comfortable talking about them when he finds them he just cant talk about it now.
Originally Posted By: Dreamcatcher
I expressed feeling as if the M is the same as it was before he left. My H wrote back and said he feels the same and that we can talk later.
This is an ambivalence strike! It is part of the process and by now you both wish it would leave you alone! It is so normal to experience this. Talking it through is the only way to win over it.
My heartfelt prayers for you both Dreamcatcher,
Newman
It's a bit long, sorry! But I hope there's some stuff in there that helps somehow- not least that the return with the ambivalence from the MLCer is a common thing. Both Phoenix and RCR posted on this quite extensivly if you can find them in the archives.
Wow, thanks Lisa, that really resonates with me also. Worrying too! I hadnt banked on so many problems with intimacy, but now I can see that there would be. Like the guy above said "Along with guilt, remorse, regret, and self-hatred for my prior actions was the constant feeling of failure and depression"...my ex said he hates himself, he is a sh*t, he is pracked with guilt, he is rubbish and of course, depressed.
K - you're welcome ! I would love to do my OWN website and maybe advertise readings (I always thought I would do it in my 40's). Seems a shame to waste 25 years of study, plus 6 years of classroom lessons training as an astrologer, including some lessons with eminent astrologers (Jonathon Cainer, Christine Skinner, Graeme Tobyn, Stephen Arroyo etc). So whats this business offer !?? (yes, May, I swear!)
As for H.. wow, so he came to lie down with you (EVEN if your D was there)? Made me a little sad reading that.. he does love you. Lisa's post is interesting though, your H was so guilty he couldnt even admit the A!!!
That makes me think.. I wonder if its like a real block for him, to intimacy? I wonder what he would be like if he were able to just open up and admit it, be honest? I often said before that he didnt want to tell you he had, or any details as he was afraid you would tell him to F off and he would lose you forever, which I know sounds perverse, as he is possibly losing you now by his NON actions and NOT telling you about the A.
But I am an emotionally expressive person and I was very very fearful of admitting that I even fancied OM, neverlone the nature of our EA and definetly not the details of our PA. Although I wanted to be honest and for him to trust me again and us to grow closer, I was terrified of losing him. So it took me 2 years for all the details to finally come out.
