I think you planted the seed that it is up to her. I don't really think you should send an email saying such things. I think you're doing well being calm and in control. I think that's what she wanted all along.
I think if the opportunity comes up, you may want to suggest that she and you give it one last shot. Just to be sure for you both. Then bring up the weekends away.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Song, I dont have access to my FB account from work and with the time difference (Greece) I only saw it this morning my time. When I get home I will do it, ok?
I dont know about the email. Sometimes we need to do things that will make us feel better irrelevant to the result. I know I've tried a few back in the bomb days. Very poor DBing and it may have costed me a couple of months... BTW, I am not "a success" story in the sense of restoring my M and I am probably heading for a divorce, BUT my H did say he wanted back and I gave HIM his second chance (role reversal, how things can change...LOL) and almost 2 years ago he wanted out also... Dont know your sitch. Just thought to mention this. Dont get discouraged. You know the drill. K
Song...I support whatever you decide to do, but, I must play the balance. I post this as reading and thought...and JMO.
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Men are so blind to this in their state of insecurity and seeing a world of scarcity, they don't want to see it. Men want to see everything returning to the status quo; it is the goal we are driven toward by virtue of brain wiring. You've seen it yourself. When a man sees his current situation as the only viable option, he will become a martyr if that's what it takes to keep his domicile intact, else he sees himself has having failed as a man; he failed to protect the integrity of the domicile.
That is why only a rational man who can think logically about his life and situation can overcome. Such a man sees a world of abundance, knows that the only scarce resource is his own time and life and treats every situation in such a ay as to protect his time and life and make it serve him, through fair trade, not deceit.........You may have noticed that both genders try and deceive the man. Men will lie to themselves to try to keep their family together , while women will lie to men to try to form the ideal situation for them and their kids....there is irrefutable evidence of this, on such a scale as to leave no other possible conclusion. It's reality, good, bad or indifferent, and if men are to live happily with women, they have to recognize this and arrange their life in such a way as to minimize the potential for abuse. Unfortunate, but self-evident.
Originally Posted By: song's W
w- "It will be hard for them at first, but in the long run they will be better off because they will have closure. Living in limbo like we are now isn't good for them."
me- "So you're saying that they will be better off if we get divorced"
w- "Yeah, I think they will. Right now they are so confused wondering what's going to happen. They need closure so we can all move on."
Sadly...I agree with her. She sounds totally rational and being in the same position as she is but opposite.....she speaks soundly. I'm sorry. If you can get her to separate first before D, perhaps you can work it. Unfortunately, the statistics show that the majority of women who separate go on to divorce their H's. FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
We've been separated for 7 months now, and this is the decision she has come to over that time. She did say at the beginning that she wanted to work on the M through the separation time, but there has been no activity in that regard on her side, and I pursued like crazy for the first 3 months, and DB's for the past 4 months.
I appreciate your perspective FIB, and I just had a discussion with my boss who went through a D 3 years ago, and he told me basically the same thing. I know I have no control of what happens and have to accept whatever she decides, but I remain resolute that I will not agree to this. She can do what she has to do, but it will all be on her, and it will be presented to the kids that it is her decision, not something we both decided. I believe M is sacred, and nothing but abuse would warrant a D.
I think she is still conflicted because she hasn't taken any steps, and is looking for my agreement to move forward. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm deceiving myself, but I hold onto the belief that the one who wants to leave the M has the power, and the one who doesn't only has time.
Sandi, if you are reading this, I hope you will give me your perspective.
Just be careful how you present this to your kids song. If you make her out to be the bad guy right now...you will lose. Trust me. Tell them that when they are all 18. Be careful. FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
I understand, and I would never say anything disparaging about W, but the kids will know it is her decision and not my decision. They already know it was her decision to move out and get an apartment, and she is the one that needs time to determine whether we all live together as a family or not.
My question still remains, should I send her this email as a last attempt, or is it not a good idea? Would you word it differently?I'd appreciate any insight - Thanks.
W,
Before you take any steps toward a permanent solution to what may be a temporary problem, I would ask that you consider participating in one or both of these workshops with me.
I really believe that we owe it to each other, and to our kids, to try and see if we can work through our issues, as a divorce will have life long impact and repercussions on all of our lives. At the very least, we would know that we exhausted every opportunity to make it work, and could move forward without doubt of whether we should have tried something to help.
I would appreciate a response, even if only to let me know that you received this email.
Song - Unfortunately, that is still pursuing and pressure. You need to just let go and move on with your life and figure out your needs and wants. Lots of people have asked that. What are the answers? Besides your old life and your W that is.
Can't you see that you already have your answer where she stands? Dont believe anything they say remember. Only actions. What are her actions? Not filing. Not telling the kids.
The message is clear to me. What about you?
Patience. Stay the course. She is confused and doesnt know what she wants. You gave her space now give her the time she is asking for.
Hi Song. You contacted me and ask to stop by and give my thoughts about the email to your wife. First, let me say that I don't believe anybody can say that you have not stood for your marriage. I will also say that when I read the response to what you had to say with the heated conversation with your wife when you told her she would have to proceed with everything regarding the divorce and then you walked out.......I first thought that it sounded good and that you were showing strength, etc. However, after reading on further and what you were going to send in the email, I begin to think over the stitch again and I went back to scan some of the posts. Then I read something I told you quite some time back:
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She will continue to get meaner if you don't back off or as FIB has said.....turn her lose. Song, if you can just turn her over to God. If you can just put her in His hands and turn the entire stitch over to Him, then you will be able to find peace. Until then, you will continue to be miserable.
I continued to scan more of things you had written and Song, it hurts me to say this, but I'll have to stick with what I said in that post before. And, even though it appeared for a little bit that you were being very strong and not giving in to her and "standing for your marriage" on that day she was trying to get you to comply with the divorce.........if you will be honest with yourself, it was you trying to control the stitch. I do understand. I also understand "tough love". But this is not what I call tough love. This is controlling and it is hard for you to see it b/c you are so despartly trying to hold the M together. But, as I told you before, it is time for you to turn her lose and turn her over to God and let Him deal with her and the stitch b/c nothing else and nobody else at this point is going to change her mind. Even if she agreed to go to those events you want to try, it would only be an agreement on her part in hopes to prove to you that it did no good and could still not save the M. Marriage seminars or counseling does no good when the person has a closed heart and her heart is closed to you at this time. If you do not drop the rope and turn her lose and move forward in your life, she will end up hating you and you will NEVER stand a chance of ever having her friendship, much less her love. All things are possible with God, but we need to get out of His way to let Him do His job. If we continue to srew things up, then we are the ones that made things impossible. Remember, human free will? God does not interfer with that! Your wife has free will and God will honor that.......and you need to also. It hurts God that she has chosen this path.......and it hurts you. But, Song, there is somebody else that is hurting that you need to put before yourself and that is that son who may never be able to get over this ordeal. In the very beginning, he was having a terrible, terrible time, and it has gotten worse. You must do what is best for him and it clearly seems that what is going on now is not what is best for his health. I know, divorce does not seem to be the answer for any child. I am not saying that it is! I am saying that the contention between his parents is killing him slowly. I feel that you thought you were truly doing what was best for everyone in your family. I believe you thought you were doing God's will for every family and that is to stay married. Please lay it at the feet of the Father and just turn it over to Him, leave it there with Him and set her free and free yourself and the children. Some day........maybe some day. But not this way......not this way will it ever happen. Divorce is not the end. As long as she is not married to another, there could be a chance if the two of you can become friends and you can leave it at that and not try to pursue her and let her stay free. I think you will have to have a very long soul searching talk with God and ask Him to help you turn her over to Him and also to help you be free of this bondage.
It always hurts to give this advice. It is never what anyone wants to hear. I read in one of the posts from somebody who wrote to you (I think FIB) that to deatch is to know that somebody other than your wife can love you. Setting her free is the same thing. It is trusting God to let you feel love from others and to be able to live a full and happy life. What sounds and feels impossible to you right now, is not impossible, Song. You have done all you can, except one thing. It's time, now. Don't lose any chance of having her as at least your friend. Give your kids the chance to get out of this nightmare and to get well.
So very sorry and you have my prayers.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you for taking the time to respond with so much thought and care. I really need to read your post a few times and digest it. I do want to clarify something though.
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In the very beginning, he was having a terrible, terrible time, and it has gotten worse. You must do what is best for him and it clearly seems that what is going on now is not what is best for his health. I know, divorce does not seem to be the answer for any child. I am not saying that it is! I am saying that the contention between his parents is killing him slowly.
True that my younger son was having a rough time at the beginning. However, it hasn't gotten worse, our relationship has improved tremendously, and he no longer has the extreme separation anxiety when he's with me. I'm not sure what you mean by "what is going on now is not what is best for his health." The kids seem to be adjusting to this whole co-parenting arrangement, and I don't think either of them feel contention between us, just that Mom still needs time.
I know that I need to detach more, and most of the time I feel like I'm doing a good job of it - no calls, emails, contact, unless it involves kids schedules or logistics - it's the times when she has wanted to discuss 'next steps' when all my DBing seems to get lost in panic of the moment.
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But, as I told you before, it is time for you to turn her lose and turn her over to God and let Him deal with her and the stitch b/c nothing else and nobody else at this point is going to change her mind.
I ask God every day to give me guidance and help me be a better man, father, husband and Christian, and maybe your message tonight is Him speaking to me, through you. I guess I just don't really understand what it means to fully turn it over to Him. I admit that I am powerless to do anything to change her mind, and I pray for Him to fill her heart with the Holy Spirit and give her peace. I pray for Him to heal her heart of all wounds past and present, and fill her heart with love.
I do want what is best for my kids, and I believe that D will cause more harm long term than the current uncertainty will. This is one reason why I won't come to a mutual agreement that this is what is best. If the decision is made, it is hers, and I can go to my grave with no regrets. But I believe in the sanctity of marriage, and don't believe anything, except for abuse, warrants divorce. That's where I'm having so much difficulty. I can give her all the time she needs, and I can drop the rope, I just can't willingly go along with something that I feel is morally wrong.
Are you saying I should just agree with her and say "OK, if you want a D, I will agree to go along with one even though I don't feel it is the best solution for the kids and I don't believe it is morally warranted."
Originally Posted By: PMA_Baby!
Can't you see that you already have your answer where she stands? Dont believe anything they say remember. Only actions. What are her actions? Not filing. Not telling the kids.
This does lead me to believe that she still is conflicted and she is looking for me to agree so she can resolve it to herself that it wasn't her decision alone. And I guess my point of standing for my marriage is that if D is going to happen, it will be her decision alone.
I can see that sending that email would be pursuing and controlling, and came to that conclusion after reading PMA's post earlier, but your input further clarifies it.
She is absolutely free to do whatever it is that she needs to do, and the ball is in her court now. I have done what I can do, said what I can say, and it IS in God's hands now.
Thank you for your continued advice and prayers Sandi. You are in my prayers also, and I hope that you are feeling better every day.
