I asked her if she would take the LL test. She responded as I would have predicted: rolling her eyes, looking generally disgusted, and asking if this was "something I got out of a book". She then agreed to take it.
Well, she got the email, but this evening told me that she didn't take it (and most likely never will) because she just didn't feel like it.
I had a short discussion with my W last night in which she told me why she did not take the test...
She could not get past the wording of the questions. If you have read the test, the questions are very directly stated "what do you want from your Spouse" - ie, do you feel more loved if your H buys you a gift, or touches you lovingly. Her emotional response right now is "Neither"
The questions are not designed with a WAS in mind. I was hoping that she could look past that aspect of the test and interpret the questions genericly, but she can't.
She apologized and said she just can't answer or even think about answering questions like that right now. I told her I understood, that she should feel no pressure, and should just delete the email I sent her.
Lesson learned and advice to other LBS's - Don't ask your WAS to take the 5 love languages test, unless you can find another version of the quiz that is generic and does not ask them directly about their relationship with you.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
We have another MC session scheduled for this evening - followed by a movie date.
The last two sessions have been mostly about her slowly opening up and beginning to express her feelings (mostly negative), and me validating and "being the rock". I can see that this really is incredibly hard for her.
After a bit of reflection, I think that one of the issues in our M has been my relative lack of emotional openness. I have found it difficult to effectively express my emotions, with her or with anyone. This has been true for both positive emotions (joy, excitement) and negative (fear, sadness, anger). It's a long-solidified defense mechanism, but when I get emotional, I throw up a wall and go stoic. The negative emotions still come out later - but in other forms - as criticism, etc.
When I think about it, I can easily imagine how being with someone who denies and closes off his emotions could cause my wife to do feel stifled, closing off her own emotions.
Although she has never said it directly, she has made comments several times that I can remember that support this. "Finally, you're getting angry" "Why did you just sit there emotionless" etc.
What I have to learn - for myself, for this R, or for any future R - is how to be strong while still acknowledging and expressing my emotions.
Right now I am thinking that this is what I have to work on in IC and MC. I need to work on opening up and letting her in to see my emotions, somehow without bludgening her with them, making her feel pressured by them, appearing weak, or otherwise chasing her away.
I am torn and a bit afraid about this. It does not match with some of the DB practices that I have been using - act as if, PMA, etc. But it is also a 180 for me - to openly talk about my emotions.
Any advice?? Any "OMG No! Don't do it"'s?
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
I just got off the phone with a good friend of mine who was just informed that his job is being terminated, and realized how many parallels there are between his sitch and ours here, and how many of the DB techniques apply directly to this other sitch.
He has poured his heart into this job and is very emotionally attached to it (you might say "married to it"
He neglected himself, his family, and all of his outside interests while working in the job
He is blaming himself for the loss - "if only I had"
He is starting to collapse into a depressed state.
He is worried that this may be his last chance at a good career
etc
One might say he is acting like an LBS who just got hit by the bomb.
In fact it is just like that, because if he remains in this state, his chances of finding another job (with the same company, or with another company) are greatly diminished, and if he does, it is likely he will have the same problems he has in his current job.
He needs to:
Detach from the job
GAL - start taking care of himself and his family
PMA - fake it til you make it. If he mopes around it will break him
Focus on the emotional issues that caused him to focus so exclusively on this job
I gave him some tips (based on my experience here).
Just wanted to say to you all "Guess what! we're not building relationship skills here, we're building life skills "
Last edited by Thinker; 04/30/0908:58 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
I took what I think was a lead from Coach - Intimacy = "in to me see". I knew that the MC always starts the session with "So, how are things, or some such, and that when he does so, my W is always silent and reluctant to go first, so I was ready.
After a long pause, I opened with "Things have been pretty good. We are getting along and spending time together, but there is still a lot of tension in the air when we are together because of the emotions that we are both feeling". After the inevitable question "What feelings?" I talked briefly about how I felt angry, both with her and with myself, but that the anger had mostly dissapated. I talked about my fear of the damage that D would do to our family, and told her that, frankly, I was afraid that she would hurt me again. The fear, also is much dissipated, and mostly now it is sadness over what we are both going through. I also told her some things that made me happy - our kids, our family time etc.
This sounds long, but it was actually pretty brief and honest and I stayed calm throughout it.
My W's biggest question was "If you are feeling anger, etc, then why are you always acting so happy?"
But then my opening up about my feelings allowed her to do so as well. She talked about being really angry, all the time, but how it was mostly with herself - for allowing the situation to build, for not standing up for herself, for quietly allowing a situation to exist where she was not feeling loving or loved. This was the first time she talked like this, and was another emotional discussion for her.
She is still very reluctant to accept that R skills are something that everyone has to learn. She seems to want to think that it is genetic - you either have R skills built in or you don't.
The C led her to a discussion about her parents R, where she openly discussed that she had never seen her parents have a good loving R (from what I saw, I agree. Her F was quiet, hard working, worried and controlling. Her M was hates any sort of controls, constantly criticized and belittled her F). My parents also did not have a great R - more like platonic roommates, never fighting, but never openly loving either.
My W agreed to return to the C next week for IC on her feelings about R's (her parents R, our R, etc).
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The discussion about her parents R also opened up old fears that I had. In the past I could see us falling into her parents roles - I was the hard working F who tried to save money, keep the house in order, etc, and was getting criticized by my W who wanted more fun and saw me as boring and controlling. This gives me my own IC work for next week - both more clearly setting boundaries and expectations for my W, and allowing myself to have more fun.
As far as my W's statement that she had not really felt either loved or loving in our M, I can readily attribute that to what I now understand as our difference in LL's. I am primarily Physical affection with a secondary Words of Affirmation. She is Quality Time. With my work schedule, travel, and then kids, we didn't have a lot of Quality time, and I interpreted some of the requests for it as unreasonable demands from her to spend money. This gives me an area to work on.
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After the IC session we went out to a movie (a comedy) and then an impromptu late night dinner of burgers and mojitos at Friday's
She want's to keep going with the C sessions and wants to keep up the date nights, so I am treating that all as positive.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
After a long pause, I opened with "Things have been pretty good. We are getting along and spending time together, but there is still a lot of tension in the air when we are together because of the emotions that we are both feeling". After the inevitable question "What feelings?" I talked briefly about how I felt angry, both with her and with myself, but that the anger had mostly dissapated. I talked about my fear of the damage that D would do to our family, and told her that, frankly, I was afraid that she would hurt me again. The fear, also is much dissipated, and mostly now it is sadness over what we are both going through. I also told her some things that made me happy - our kids, our family time etc.
This sounds long, but it was actually pretty brief and honest and I stayed calm throughout it.
Great job Thinker, you led by example. You opened up and stayed calm - confident. Then you found out her anger wasn't all directed at you.
Quote:
She is still very reluctant to accept that R skills are something that everyone has to learn. She seems to want to think that it is genetic - you either have R skills built in or you don't.
Fixed Mindset vs Growth Mindset - google Carol Dweck "Growth Mindset. We all have to work to improve ourselves.
Sounds like you are thinking thru your emotions after you feel them. Feel then understand. You can handle it. Cheers Coach
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
She is still very reluctant to accept that R skills are something that everyone has to learn. She seems to want to think that it is genetic - you either have R skills built in or you don't.
Fixed Mindset vs Growth Mindset - google Carol Dweck "Growth Mindset. We all have to work to improve ourselves.
I looked it up. I think I have always had the "growth" mindset. I just normally applied it to my career and work skills (management, languages, technical skills, etc) and to my physical skills (new sports, instruments, etc). These past months were the first time I started applying it to my R skills...
...but then that is not so surprising, since these past months are have really been the first time that I paid any attention to my R skills at all.
At the risk of falling into the "everything would be better if only she would change" trap, it has been my W who seems to believe that she knows everything about R's, has innate R skills, etc. She really avoids any R books like the plague. This was also true well pre-bomb. Whenever I showed interest in them, she critized me, privately and in MC sessions, saying "He needs to read books to learn how to be in a R". It is as if she believes she is perfect in her approach to and understanding of R's (and therefore, if the R is not working, it it must not be viable???)
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink"
I am not going to be able to ever convince her that this core belief of hers is correct, and that maybe she does have to learn and change her approach to R's. She'll have to come to that herself.
Until then, I still have a ton of work to do myself.
Last edited by Thinker; 05/01/0904:56 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Since you are into reading and introspection I suggest you read 'Emotional Intelligence' and any books you can get hold of my Gottman. Do a google search on these.
To Paraphrase SmileysPerson "I've got to get my mojo back - its feeling low today"
Things have been quiet and calm over the past few days, but I am sabotaging myself. As my W has opened up and I saw things "improving" over the past week, I also opened up a bit, and now feel every small reminder that our R is still far from good. I'm back on the roller coaster and can see myself getting more clingy and starting to pursue. I'm forgetting about me.
It's so hard not to...
Sometimes I don't even notice until too late...
I'm finding doubts without any reason. My fears are haunting me - thinking that maybe the A (which I believe to be finished) has started again - without any indication of it whatsoever.
I've got to put it aside - stop ruminating.
I've got to snap out of it - PMA and get back to my GAL.
I've got to get back to me.
Last edited by Thinker; 05/02/0912:28 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
As a fellow triathlete I can tell you that Tri bike WILL make you feel good.
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
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