WAW1

[markhaving probs]

PM,

What a fantastic post, I agree with Puppy.

Mark,
You see, what you wife saw the was stuff you WERE NOT doing in the relationship. I am the same way. I saw tons of stuff that my H should have been aware of if only he would pay attention to my needs and the needs of the children. It was because he was not ENGAGED that he didn't even realize we had needs. I hear that in the convos you posted here. That is why she thinks you are SELFISH, it's because you have not been anticipating the family and her needs.

This paragraph to me clarifies everything I have not done. I have read this paragraph 4 times, I understand it but I would find anticipating what is required as a pro-active act quite difficult. It never occured to me to be anticipating things, I have obviously been re-active over the years which has not done our relationship any good. As my children are coming to me for the weekend I am trying to think of things to do to anticipate what they would like to do, though I will consult with them as well. I am also looking to see how I could anticipate anything that would facilitate issues for next week. At the moment I cannot think of anything as it is not natural for me to think like this. I don't know what/how to anticipate things without knowing what the diary is for next week. How do I anticipate things??

I like your analysis on how to deal with the 'bag' issue. It is interesting as it negates conflict and is seen as though I have made the decision. Alot of the posters thought it was a case of either you do or you don't, and I thank them dearly for their imput. The problem here I thought was that by me saying 'no' I was setting a boundary in regard to respect, whether she respected me more for the fact I said no is open for conjecture, but it certainly brought about more conflict and negativity, which my wife says I am negative on a regular basis. On the other side of the coin, appeasement to her direct request would be seen as weak. To me, your take on it results in communication and compromise, and if this is the case I am implementing not 1 but 2 180's. I still am unsure about boundary setting as any requests by my wife are quite regular, I need to take in the request, which are usually by text, assimilate them and act accordingly....without losing more respect.

I find the demographics of trying to decipher what a woman says/means very difficult. How are simple men able to interpret what a woman REALLY wants without making into some kind of test.

Your take on our relationship is spot on too. As I have been told before I now have to drop the rope (I will check gucciloafers and otheres take on this) and try to divert all my attention to me and the children.

I will read this post EVERY day so that it will give me focus.

Thank you again PositivelyMommy.

[markhaving probs]

J,

I think it is fantastic. I am going to read it every day, I have also responded to PM.

[markhaving probs]

Thanks Steve for your support. It would be the most cowardly thing in the world to do. I thought about the children very quickly.

[Coach]

So I ask you to face your FEAR. Again, in my humble opinion, your fear is that you will lose her forever. How to combat this fear? The only way is to face it. The only way is to say to yourself, I have no control of this fear, I have to let go of her.

Want your wife, don't need her. You are whole and complete just the way you are. You should complement and enhance each others lives but you are not dependent on her for your happiness that is a inside job. You can handle it.
Cheers
Coach

[Steve McQueen]

i have been through all this before and not until you realize that this is no longer about a marriage going down the tubes but rather it is about me being happy with who i am. you will see no improvement. nobody wants to be around the depressed dude, esp. your wife.

[markhaving probs]

Thank you Coach for re-iterating your quote. Steve, thanks for the heads up.

[PositivelyMommy]

So Mark,

Have you thought about some things you can anticipate for your kids? I wanted you to think about them on your own for awhile before I give you all the answers. Let me know some of the things you thought of and we can discuss those. Anything at all that comes to mind. Put it down in a list form. Anything is better than nothing. You can do it.

As for communication with women. As I mentioned John Gray does an amazing job explaining different communication codes between men and women. If you are not sure what women are saying, just ask.

E.g.( not real but just as a starting point)
Wife: Do you think the kids should have pizza for dinner? (Read: I think you should take the kids out for pizza for dinner. OR I don't think the kids should have pizza again for dinner as it is unhealthy)

Husband: (Not sure which way the wife is leaning) I am happy to take the kids out to dinner if they want. But if they want a nice cooked meal, maybe I can cook up something simple at home. What do you think?
(This is called the 'I am helpful, I am anticipating their needs, and I am covering my ass strategy' Also respectful of her opinion.)

Wife: (This is when the woman reveals what is really in her heart or maybe when she realizes what she really wants when presented with a choice) I think it will take too long for you to cook something up tonight and the kids will get really hungry by the time you get home from the park. Why don't you take them out for a meal before you drop them off at my place.

Husband: (Got it) I'd be happy to (SMILE, even on phone, it comes across). You can count on me. The kids will be fed and happy by the time I drop them off tonight.
(This comment exudes confidence, capability, someone you can count on. Helpful and gives wife a picture that her kids will be well taken care of, which is her MAIN concern.)


Now, get working on anticipating children's needs. I will check back.

[antlers]

I was astounded as I know I am suffering from depression and I do not want to take any tablets, I am feeling very isolated, desperately lonely and starting to think about the point of it all really.

Most of you guys seem to be able to cope even though we all know how hard it is, but I am finding it getting more difficult for me every day, I have pushed my wife away for good, no immediate chance of a job in a career I hate, savings running out and I don't even have the energy to open letters anymore.

Mark, would you take chemotherapy or radiation therapy if you had cancer? Then what's wrong with taking antidepressants if you need them?
I've been taking Celexa for about 2 and 1/2 months, and it helps! It helps against the peaks and valleys of this roller-coaster ride we're on. I'd take 'em!

[markhaving probs]

Hi PM,

I've read your 'awesome post' lots of times now and I am trying hard to get that concept into my mind, though I will panic slightly when confronted when my first instance occurs.

Here is my Anticipation List, I have just asked the children what they would like to have here to make their weekend stays more comfortable. This is their list:-

Scalextric track - track to be setup (my son)
A football -(both of them)
Purchase some DVD's -(both of Them) - Funnily enough this was a suggestion my wife had made to me earlier in the week.
Books-(both of them) I have just ordered some from Amazon

This is a start so I will facilitate their requests before they come next.

The children have a fun run tomorrow so I need to think about they will require. I need to fill their water bottles, pin their numbers on, put suntan lotion on, get them to the venue on time. I need to make my own list to make sure they have everything.

PM, I also need to study the interaction I have with my wife. I will study your comments again but the one thing as you rightly pointed out that bothered her was not reading what her needs were. Would I suggest asking her for a diary of movements for her and the children so that I can anticipate events.

I don't want to look as though I am pursuing, also my wife would wonder why the sudden change, I want to be a bit more subtle.

Lastly PM, some more divorce papers came through yesterday, my question is would it seem like I am pursuing if I kept my wedding ring on? I believe in the commitement of marriage and the sanctuaity of marriage and do not want to take my wedding ring off once the divorce goes through. I know I am jumping the gun and I also know I have got to forget my relationship with my wife, but I am trying to think ahead and anticipate how this would be seen.

Thank you PM, I look forward to you response.

[JCJ]

Hi Mark

What about some girl things for your daughter, what is she into?