Sandi's in Piecing and it's getting better

[sandi2]

After reading this last post I am reminded so much of how I felt when I first broke off the EA with my OM. I hope I don't repeat myself b/c I have told so many people my "story" until I honestly forget who I have said this to. Anyway, after what you said about where she works, it gives me a better picture of things. I also feel that she is doing the same thing that I did. Now, this may not make you feel that great b/c it isn't really what the H wants to hear. But, the things is this; I had to make a decision between staying in my M or leaving my H for the OM. I decided to do what I knew in my heart was the "right" thing to do, which was stay in my M. Now my heart, feeling, emotions and all of those things my H wanted me to have just was not there at that point and time of my decision. I think that is the same thing with your wife. She chose to make the "right" descion but her heart will take time to catch up to her decision. That is why it is a good thing that you are moving very, very slowly. I might add that you need to move maybe a tad more slowly. Don't mean to discourage you, but just telling you from my POV. I know you are anxious to get back to where your M needs to be and I think if you keep going by "what works" like you are, that it will get there. BTW, I like that!

I was not a happy camper by any means when I first decided to stay b/c it was not what I really wanted but rather b/c I could not afford to support myself without help from my H and I knew he would not give me a penny. So, my "real" decision to stay did not come until after I came here to the DB board and got some help from good people who gave me valuable advice. It took a while before I could break it off and it took what seem forever before I started to even "try" to warm up to my H b/c the feelings for him seemed completely gone.

Regarding your W's sexual desire. It is very possible that she needs some type of hormone that her body is lacking. Hormones make up most of the female body and if that is out of whack, then she is depressed or has not sex desire, or she is b*tchy, or something else is wrong.

I'll tell you a secret about me, okay. Since it is just the two of us talking here....lol. I had been on several anti-depression meds for years and had been to several doctors trying to get help with my Fibromyalgia. I was so over medicated! Anyway, I just stopped taking any AD meds altogether. When I stopped, my sex drive returned! I had always had a LD, but this was like a gift from heaven! But the timing was not good b/c this was when I got into playing the Internet games and got to fllirting and one thing led to another and you know the rest of the story. But I was so thrilled to actually "feel" turned on. I know this is getting very personal, but I just don't know any other way. So, after I got back on the AD meds, guess what happened? Yep. And, even with the EA with OM........I could tell a vast difference b/c he was no longer giving me the excitement that I was getting when I was off the AD meds. Oh, I enjoyed talking to him over the Internet, but as far as anything else......it wasn't there.

Anyway, here a few weeks ago, I went to a new doctor and he run all types of blood tests that I have been wanting done.....and would even ask doctors to check, but they were not doing the detailed break-down of certain hormones, etc. Well, guess what? He said my body was a "trainwreck". I was so lacking in so many hormones that he said it would take quite a while to build my body back to "normal". In fact, he gave me just a few things to take at a time so he would know how it was working for me.

Now I told you all of that so you would know that your wife could be suffering from the lack of any number of hormones. And, if she is taking any AD meds, it will affect her sex drive. There is only one, I know of that is not as bad as the others, but I think they all affect it some. Zoloft is the worst, I believe.

Having children can get a female's body out of whack and stay that way for years. So, if you could get her to a doctor that would really do a blood panel work-up to see what all she needs, then I bet it would make a huge difference. If she is a nurse, then she would know what to call it. I'm surprised that she hasn't had it seen about since she is a nurse.

Anyway, Stuck, I think she is trying......okay? If you can just treat her like you said about a new date......that is pretty much the way it is. Just as if you were trying to win over a new girl's attention and affections. In my day, a boy knew to make his moves in baby steps or he may get his face slapped.... but I don't think it is that slow these days...lol. I think it is the way you'll have to go though. You can do it. You are doing it!

She is going through a process, as you probably know, about getting over the OM. I hate to say this and never have admitted it, but I will confess it here and now.......there are times, still, when I feel down or lonely or whatever, that for just a minute I have a desire to talk to the OM to see how he is, etc. In other words, I miss the "friendship"......if you can believe that. It probably turns your stomach to hear me say that, but where my H is not a talker, and I obviously am......the OM would talk to me and of course, build up my ego and I enjoyed the conversations we had. But, I won't go there again. I learned my lesson. The point I'm making is how powerful these EA's are and even when they are over......once in a while a little memory comes floating out of nowhere and hits your brain. So, I have to fight that urge to email him.......which, thank God, is not a big urge anymore. So, she is having a battle all the time she is trying to learn to feel like a wife to you again. I truly think she "wants" to find old self and her old life again. I know I did. I just wanted my life back again. Yeah, the one I was ready to run away from......that one!

I realize I have made this too long. But in closing, let me again encourage you to try to keep things at home and between the two of you as "light" and "fun" as you can and don't allow any serious relationship stuff get in the middle of things. Try to fight that with all your might. I may have told you this, but my H has been so strong in not asking me questions about the OM (of course he read the emails....so he knew about everything) but he doesn't question me and he doesn't spy on me. He waited for me to bring things up as I felt like I could. I did not think I would ever mention any of it to him again, but I have in little bits and pieces. It took a long time for me to feel true remorse for what I had done. That surprised me. Maybe b/c I had to deal with some bad feeling toward my H first. But, I finally could tell my H I was sorry, but it took time. He has not made any moves toward me and has waited on me to show him affection. It's ironic that now he has health problems that....well, we won't get into all of that. But, it is still taking time and I am hoping that if this new doctor can get my body back on track and I can start to feel like the real "Sandi" again, that that will make the biggest difference in our lives. I know I hurt my H beyound belief. It has been husbands like you, Stuck, that has helped me understand better. My H would not talk to me and he would not go to counseling for us to get help, so you guys have been my counselors. I appreciate that and just wanted you to know it.

Better go b/c it is way past bedtime. I want you to keep in touch with me so I will know how things are going. BTW, what is her favorite fun thing to do? You might think about something like that before too much on the romantic lines. When she gets real comfortable with you (like when the two of you were in bed) she will relax and feel more at ease and hopefully just fall into that next step of the romance and love making. Sure hope so!

Take care friend. Thanks for listening to me tonight.

Sandi

[song]

Hi Sandi,
You've helped me out in the past and I'm hoping that you can jump over to my sitch to give me some guidance on my recent W encounters (towards the bottom of page 13 on the link below, My Story 2)? I really value your advice and am unsure of the best way to proceed, but don't want to hijack your thread by restating it all. Thanks so much,

[MrBond]

Hi Sandi,

Your posts are always so on the money it's scary. : )

I agree with you that my W is in a "transition" state right now where she just emotionally empty and can't commit back into the M. Right now I get the feeling that she doesn't want to deal with it and/or not sure what she wants and so is just living right now.

Like you said, she's at the stage where she's coming down from the high of the OM and is dealing with the consequences of her actions from when she told me she wanted to leave. Unlike your sitch, she actually told me she wanted out to pursue her boss and that I was a horrible H, etc. Sure we had our disagreements, but none that could not have worked out.

My W is a little on the quieter side, so I've learned that when she does tell me something, no matter how small, I have to listen to it because to her a whisper is a scream. I've acknowledged all of the problems that she had with me after I understood that and have changed my behavior accordingly.

It's just that when she told me she wanted to leave, she was so intoxicated with the OM that no matter what I said or did would have made any difference. Evidently, she held onto little resentments and didn't tell me about them. And those resentments built until she finally used them as a reason for her leaving. It's amazing how small her resentments were and that she would leave her M because of them. For example, she said she didn't like it when I would forget to take out the garbage. Those were honest mistakes, but she actually told me she was leaving me because of things like that. She would actually have a different reason each week and after a while, you'd wonder how we even lasted 1 week together much less 17 years.

It's been just a little over one year since all this madness happened and I think just now she's coming down from her OM high.

I recognized that the one thing that led us down this path is that we put the kids' needs and attention before ours. I think she's slowly starting to realize that too, but didn't want to listen when I first brought this up because it was coming from me.

So, like DB says, the only person I can change is myself. I've been consciously talking to her more. Building up her self-esteem as much as possible and doing more around the house. I'm trying to outshine the OM as much as I can since she still works with him.

We actually had a R talk Sunday (I brought it up) and told her that I was not interested in a "roommate" and that it hurt every time she turned away when I tried kissing her. I know, my bad. I told her about all the things that was on my mind and how she should have talked to me before anyone else when we had problems. I talked to her about EAs and how they happen because she wasn't going to C or doing anything to understand why she did what she did. I know all anti-DB things, but at that point I was getting frustrated of being stuck in limbo. She didn't get mad or threaten to leave as she had in the past and the following morning, she gave me a peck on the lips goodbye as I was leaving for work. So in my W's case, sometimes I think I have to push her to maybe understand a little as to what happened. This is only because she really doesn't have any friends to talk to.

I apologized to her a couple of nights ago though for that R talk and that I didn't mean for all that stuff to come out. I told her I understood how she wasn't ready for certain things and it came out that night because even though we are together somewhat now, I feel even lonelier because I can't do anything with her like ML or romancing her. I told her that before she left, when we ML, it was the only intimate connection we had that didn't involve the kids and I missed it. I also told her that I especially feel sentimental when her old personality comes out and that I fell in love with her because of what was inside and not outside.

I KNOW we can get through this. Once she gets passed the confusion part and looks at the benefits of our R again. But you're right, it's going to take awhile. I think she's making an effort even though she's not admitting to it.

In terms of her sex drive. I think for her it is purely emotional and not hormonal. Only because she wanted to do more with the OM until I flat out put a stop to it. I accused her of being a homewrecker for pursuing a married man and that she was no better than her father who walked out on her mom when she was 6, the same age our oldest D is now. To this day my W had never forgiven her father for what he did and was always paranoid about me cheating on her. LOL.

You're right about the OM. I wish he would do something to her that would just see him in a bad light once and for all. I even found out that he was already cheating on his W the same time he tried to cheat with my W. So he had 3 people. After I told my W, she said it didn't matter. That's how hung up she was on him.

I'm going to continue to stick this out and do more of what works and what doesn't. I'm planning on making the "You are invited" card for the Mama Mia flower arrangement and see how it goes. I'll let you know. Wish me luck.

Thanks again for everything.

[MrBond]

Just out of curiosity. How long was your "mourning period" over the OM. I know my W's going to take much longer since she physically sees hers, but just curious.

Sometimes I wonder if me going out with another woman would make her snap out of it.

[Hope4us]

You're right about the OM. I wish he would do something to her that would just see him in a bad light once and for all. I even found out that he was already cheating on his W the same time he tried to cheat with my W. So he had 3 people. After I told my W, she said it didn't matter. That's how hung up she was on him.

Stuck, I haven't followed your sitch, but what you wrote here doesn't surprise me in the least.

Since I've been involved in the sitch that no one wants to be in, I've learned a lot.

And there are a very good number of sitch's like this where one or the other of the cheating spouses is in it for what they can get and the other is "in love" and could care less what the OP has done in the past or is doing currently. Our spouses feel good when they're with the OP. Doesn't matter if they have another BF/GF they're cheating on their spouse with while they're cheating with your spouse. Whether its a temporary thing or an actual character flaw with our spouses is the question that needs to be answered to determine if the marriage can be saved or not.

In my sitch, my W is not a cheating person. We've had a pretty darn good marriage for 22 of the 24 years we've been married (she even admits this). And then W had some major stresses, grandma passing away, relocation for work, mentapause, all adds up to the perfect storm of an A. And the OM in my sitch is a serial cheater. He was scr*wing a woman that my W works with and when she transferred he had to find his next mark. W was it. My W knew he'd cheated on his W multiple times prior to the beginning of their A (she told me this recently).

OM moved ~200 miles away and almost immediately found a new GF, and my W had a pretty good idea about that too, but my W was still ready to D me and thought OM would marry her (after divorcing his W) and they'd be one big happy family.

I've recently come to grips with the fact that there's nothing we can do beyond GAL and becoming the person no spouse would want to leave. Busting the A works in some cases (It gave my marriage it's best chance), but that draw Sandi and others talk about is so strong that it will cause an otherwise rational, moral person to be willing to throw everything away because of how the OP makes them feel. They are convinced because they either have never felt that way with you or it's been a long time since they have, that the marriage is no longer worth it.

From your post, your W and my W are in much the same place. I don't know how long you've been at this, but it will take a long time. It's been over a year since (from what I can determine) the A officially ended in W's mind (my adult kids put a little crimp in her fantasy land) and there have been glimpses of my old W from time to time, but up until a few months ago, she was still so foggy that you never knew what you were going to get on a given day. Just these last few months I'm seeing the real her more and more. Still not wearing her wedding rings and still hasn't said "I love you", but you're spot on with your observation on the transition state and her being emotionally empty. My W is right there.

Will we get there? Don't know. Most times I feel like the only way we won't make it is if I give up, but that time is coming. How much can a person give without getting what they need in return? And that's the crime in all this. Many times the LBS becomes the WAS and then the original WAS figures it out and it's too late.

Patience. Never knew I had this much Patience in me.

For what it's worth.

[1853dave]

Hi Sandi,

I'm so happy that things are going well for you. And like many others, I wonder if you would take a look at my posts and lend some advice or insight. I really enjoy reading your perspective on things.

I've had some success with DB, but things don't seem to necessarily be moving in a direction that I want...

Thanks

[MrBond]

Hi Hope4us.

I've been at this for a little over a year now like yourself. I do see glimmers of hope between my W and I, but it's going to take time. And you're right...alot of patience on my part.

Do you have a thread going now?

[sandi2]

Good evening, Stuck. In response to some things you said:

“I agree with you that my W is in a "transition" state right now where she just emotionally empty and can't commit back into the M. Right now I get the feeling that she doesn't want to deal with it and/or not sure what she wants and so is just living right now.”

Right now, she CAN’T deal with the MR emotionally. You see, it is taking all she has to just make it through each day. Now Stuck, I know these words hurt you and I hope you know me well enough by now to realize I do not say this to be hateful to you but rather try to help you see “where” she is in her state of mind, body, and soul. We discussed how she decided to make the “right” decision by staying in her M. She knew it was the right thing to do and probably it hit her hard to remember she was doing to her child what had been done to her. But, did that change what was happening to her insides completely? Unfortunately it did not. She would have been so relieved if it had! That would have taken care of all her problems. She would have been so happy if her feelings for the OM had all went away overnight and her normal feelings for her H had returned and she even felt like being the “mother” she once was. Yes, being the mother she once was, b/c she is feeling guilt about not being the noble mother that her children deserves and is beating herself up. Do you know what I told my H the day after this blew up around here? I told him if he ever told my children what I had done that I would hate him until the day I died! I meant every word of it b/c to me, that was what I could not bear……was my children knowing that their “Christian” mother had lowered herself and actually did the sin that she had always taught them was so wrong. I feared they would think I was the biggest hypocrite since Judas. I feared they would never respect me again or that they would think....whatever…….I imagined it all! Mothers do not want their children to think of them in a less than an "honorable" way……even if she knows she deserves it. They want their children to honor them if nobody else in the world does. So, even though it hurts you to know she may not have chosen to stay in the M strictly out of her love for you………you need to realize at the same time that her mind was so flooded with those “chemicals” that I had never heard about until I came to the board--and had no idea of how they worked on the human brain. I don’t know if she has ever read about it or not, but you can look it up on the Internet, as I had to before I could actually believe it was true! That would do her more good than some of the other things you have said to her. Anyway, she IS rather existing, so to speak, and I’m sure she appears almost dead emotionally and a lot of other ways, but Stuck, she is just trying to survive one day at a time. Until a person goes through an EA, they have no idea what it does to your mind and body. I did not believe it and I would have turned my nose up, just as my H did when he acted so self-righteous and told me he had never done anything wrong. But, now I understand since I experienced it. You are right, she doesn’t want to have to deal with anything more than is absolutely....on the verge of an emergency....task on any give day at this time. B/c she just can't. Some days she may have to just concentrate on breathing in and breathing out. You may think I am exaggerating, but when I said I felt as if I were having a nervous breakdown, I was not kidding. My nerves were shot and it was all I could do to make it through a work day. Breathe in—breathe out! Get through this day! That was what I would tell myself. She may appear almost emotionally dead, but actually, she feels as if she has been in a war with her emotions and she isn’t quite sure who won yet--but she knows she has battle scars. That is why I keep begging you to please be careful and not put pressure on her too quickly. Everything is pressure to her at this point. Yes, you are trying so hard...and doing a great job, I might add. But, she is trying hard also; it doesn’t appear that way b/c it is not showing on the outside in the form of “actions”. It is almost like she needs a time of rest to regroup. She wants to find herself so she can commit back to the M. You asked how long it took me.....but I don’t want to tell you b/c it would discourage you. Okay? It takes a long time and while you are doing baby steps to hang on and make the M work....she is also doing baby step, sweetie, but you aren’t able to see them.

“Unlike your stitch, she actually told me she wanted out to pursue her boss and that I was a horrible H, etc.”

Well, don’t make me sound to “good” b/c I said some hard things to my husband. And the things she brought up that seem so trivial? That was her way of desperately trying to justify her reason for leaving you. When you are M to a great guy, it must be tough coming up with enough “bad” things about him or the M to justify leaving him without everyone in your family and the world hating your guts! So, if that is all she could find to complain about you, try to take that as a huge compliment!

“My W is a little on the quieter side,”

Yes, so is my H, and it drives me crazy at times. I think it is those “quite” people we have to watch! Just kidding ya. I know what you mean, though, and when it is the wife that is the quiet one, you do have to listen very carefully when she says ANYTHING, okay? And, you have to be very aware of your tone of voice and the volume b/c some men can get into a habit of talking “gruff” and he sounds mad, when really he isn’t, but she thinks he is.

“It's just that when she told me she wanted to leave, she was so intoxicated with the OM that no matter what I said or did would have made any difference.”

How well I know! When a woman is under the “influence” of that intoxication of the OM, I don’t know if there is ANYTHING a H can do at that time to shock her, wake her up, scare her....I really wonder if there is anything. B/c if he got too drastic, she would really have justification (in her mind) to leave him for the OM. My H tried the hardest when he thought I might leave him after he first discovered the messages on the computer. And, the harder he tried, the more it turned me toward the OM. But, when I told him to back off and leave me alone....and I meant really alone or I was out of here, then he did. I know it had to been hell for him, but he did it. Now, remember, I was very resentful about staying here. I did not want to, but felt forced into it. It took a long time for me to even decide to just do what was “right” b/c I slipped around to find ways to communicate with the OM. It was later that I finally was able to reach the decision to be willing "to be willing".

“It's been just a little over one year since all this madness happened and I think just now she's coming down from her OM high.”

But, has she grieved for him? You see, I think I know what you mean by the “high” but if she is just now coming down from the high, then the hard part sets in. She has to accept the break up and she has to actually grieve over it. Now that REALLY hits below the belt, doesn’t it? I am so sorry, but it is all part of the process, and if you push her to fast, it will cause her to backslide and reach back for him. You don’t want that to happen. If she does that, it will be much harder for her to break it off again. So, please, Stuck, don’t pursue her with the romance. You can be sweet and fun and all of that. You can even give her a non-sexual kiss (peck) on the lips, but she is not ready for more at this time. I know to you a year has been an eternity, but you need to keep working at just keeping her with you and the kids--and she will finally get through her own personal torments and can be the wife you want to have. I know it is horrible for you, but I am here as that AWAW pouring my heart out to you and telling you that it is horrible for her too. “Transition” is a small word for just a hard ordeal that she is dealing with. That is not the word for what you are dealing with.....but we won’t use that word!

“I recognized that the one thing that led us down this path is that we put the kids' needs and attention before ours. I think she's slowly starting to realize that too, but didn't want to listen when I first brought this up because it was coming from me.”

So very common with couples in our fast past....want to cram it all in....world we live it today. But, my kids were grown and I did not want to listen to my H or my mother about anything, either. During that intoxication period, you are deaf to anyone’s words but those of the OM and anyone who agrees with what that represents (like divorced friends, etc.) Also, I am hearing more and more as each day passes how more A’s happen with people at the workplace than anywhere else. So, sad, but maybe it is b/c they see those people more than their own S. Their S no longer looks or acts attractive and when at home you have to deal with bills and kids and in-laws and all that crap. At work, the OP looks great, smells great, dresses sharp, and you don’t have to deal with things like you do at home. Even the work stress is not the same as at home and you sure don’t get into a fight when it is your boss!

“So, like DB says, the only person I can change is myself. I've been consciously talking to her more. Building up her self-esteem as much as possible and doing more around the house. I'm trying to outshine the OM as much as I can since she still works with him.”

And that is just what you need to keep doing! The OM is your competition and I know that most men kind of like competition (usually not over their wife, but never-the-less, you have it), so make it work for you. Especially when you are tired and don’t “feel” like being fun or looking sharp, or smelling good cause it’s just a lazy Saturday afternoon. We’ve been over this before, so you know the routine. One thing I do want to remind you is that when you are trying to compliment her or build up her ego.....don’t sound...”married” when you say something, okay? Do you know how I mean that? Say it like you are not her husband but rather another man. I hope you take that the right way. Women know the difference. I bet husbands know the difference when his wife says, “Honey you look nice today”.....from when a sexy young thing says something to you that makes you feel ten years younger. See what I mean? Don’t just say that she looks nice or cooked a great meal. You could say that to your sister or mother. But say something specific that sounds sexy (but not like you are trying to get her in bed) and makes her feel pretty and young. When she wears something new, give her a low, long, wolf whistle. Sometimes, just give her a wink. God, there is nothing in this world more sexy than a wink from a man to a woman!! Oh, well, you get the idea....don’t you?

“We actually had a R talk Sunday (I brought it up) and told her that I was not interested in a "roommate" and that it hurt every time she turned away when I tried kissing her. I know, my bad”

Yes, it was your bad, Stuck. And here is my 2x4....I want you to know that every time you pull this, you have dug your own M grave a little deeper! Will that make you stop and think what you are doing next time? Do you think she will jump your bones that night b/c of what you said? My H told me he was not going to live like roommates either, but we have!! (But, then we did for over 11 year before I turned to the OM!) He is just lucky I decided to stay, period. He could have not even had a roommate! How would you like to hear her tell you that? You asked how long it’s been for me? Longer than a year, I promise you that. But, we are getting there. We are not having sex, but maybe some day soon. As I said, we are not as young as the two of you, so it isn’t as major (maybe) as it is for you. I have already discussed that, so won’t get into it again.

I was not being defensive in that last paragraph, but I said that on purpose hoping to show you the mind of a WAW. It isn’t healed yet, Stuck. Stop pushing it. Don’t come this far only to lose her. If you want to take her to see the show……find. Don’t get the card and the flowers. She will feel like you are setting her up. Any woman and every woman with a brain knows what that means.....especiall when there has not been any sex in a long time! Make it causal and just say, “Let’s take in a show, okay?” Don’t do anything romantic. Just be relaxed and put no pressure on her or she will be miserable. I am so afraid it will backfire and put you weeks and maybe months behind if you pursue this b/c I know how your mind is working. You are hoping against hope that you two will ML, but she is not ready. If she does it, it will be only for your sake. If she is still turning away when you try to kiss her, do you really think she is ready for sex? Think about it! (It is not your brain that that you have been thinking with!) Yeah, she may have given you a little peck before leaving the next day, but no, in her case you don’t need to push her. Why do men get these ideas? B/c they get hor*y! That was not why she gave you the peck. Don’t push. You will be sorry. That is not how you do it with WAW’s. Your wife is not the exception.

I always wish you luck, Stuck. But I have talked as hard as I know about this and I hope you will think it over very seriously before you stubbornly carry through with the romantic card & invitation thing. That is too much over the top at this time. That time will come, but it hasn’t come yet.

Take care,
Sandi

OMG! I just now saw your next post to me!

Just out of curiosity. How long was your "mourning period" over the OM. I know my W's going to take much longer since she physically sees hers, but just curious.

Oh well, I think I covered that part, but I'm not sure what you mean my physically sees hers. I was told that the grieving period took at least three months. Mine took a lot longer. But, after the grieving, then you have to try to jump start your willingness to have feelings for your H and when you discover it doesn't quite work that easily, then you get depressed and have to work through a bunch of crap internally. Great stuff!

Sometimes I wonder if me going out with another woman would make her snap out of it.

You do, and I will personally come wring your neck!! That is the very worst thing you could ever do. You might as well pack it up if you do that. I know, sweetie. It is hell. I KNOW it is, even though I was not in your place. I have enough sense to know that any human who loves his wife would feel like death when something like this has happened. But, is she worth it to you, Stuck? Is she valauble enough to hang on a while longer? I just bet she is and I know those kids are worth it. You CAN DO THIS my friend. You are strong. I know b/c you have already proven it. You are discouraged and lonely and at times want to go find a hooker and have sex. (Well, maybe not a hooker... ) Anyway, keep coming here and blow off steam to us, but don't mess up at this stage of the relationship.

Please be careful.....okay? You are vulnerable. There are females out there that probably would like to take you up on an offer, but please don't let your mind even wonder down that street.

Sandi (again)

[MrBond]

Sandi,

Thanks again for your reply and believe me they are NEVER too long. You are right that sometimes I do need to vent and that even though things are looking much more positive, I do need to slow down.

I know she's trying for whatever reason. I also understand about the mourning period, for her other R with the OM, and of course it's harder for me seeing as how she sees the guy every day. I surmised that he is deep in a MLC and I do get afraid that if he starts trying to get his hooks back into her, she'll fall right for him again. Hence my trying to outshine him. She had told me before that she didn't have very many friends and so she was going to miss his friendship. That was the hardest pill to swallow. I had told her time and time again even before all this happened that something was wrong and that she could always talk to me when she had problems, but she never did.

One of the things that I believe attracted her to her boss is that he looked like her grandfather who was the only positive male role model in her life and felt that she could trust him. Of course all he wanted was to get in her pants, but she couldn't see it.

But that's all water under the bridge. She's here now and that's all that matters. I'm just not sure if she's still getting a "fix" with him being there or if she actually has started her mourning period.

Don't worry about the 2x4s or thinking that I will get discouraged or hurt. Everything you've said are things that I've gone over in my head. It is nice though to be given a reminder by you.

I cherish your posts and they have kept me going at the times when I become frustrated.

Like you with your H, I wish she could talk to me the way we do. Especially when she started having doubts about us.

I will back off a tad to see how it goes. I've often thought of how I could "attract" her back to get her to be the one to initiate things. Out of love and not out of obligation. If you have any ideas on how I can quietly attract her back I'm all for it.

I am in it for the long haul and remain optimistic so you don't have to worry about me straying. I wonder what you would have done if your H did that to you. I don't think he'd be walking around today. : )

I will continue to woo her without being too aggressive. I've already accepted the fact that this was going to be a loooong dry season : ).

[sandi2]

I've often thought of how I could "attract" her back to get her to be the one to initiate things. Out of love and not out of obligation. If you have any ideas on how I can quietly attract her back I'm all for it.

My husband would like to have that same knowledge, I'm sure...

Although, my H has not recieved the imput that you have gotten from this board and reading the DR book. I have not seen my H working at "trying" to actually be attractive to me and that hurts a little bit, but I believe the way he probably looks at it (I don't know, I just have to guess about what he thinks) is that I was the one that went astray, so I need to be the one to do the work getting back the relationship.

Even though we are not sexually active, we have come such a long way in our R. We were in a lot of trouble in our MR years before I had the EA, but we chose to ignore it, so when I look at point A and now at point B, I am amazed that we have made the distance. Let me give you an example. Last night he called me while he was out and I was in the back room on the computer. Well, the answer machine came on and he knew I was here and he was saying funny things to me on the machine as I was making my way to the phone. When I picked it up, I responded with, "I thought I got rid of you!" and he laughed and we just carried on joking with each other. Now when you consider what a "touchy" subject that could have been to say something like that....pretending I did not know it was him and all.....yes, we've come a long way to be able to do that.

You see, my H and I just lived under the same roof for so many years that we really did not enjoy each other's company. He stopped acting like he even cared if we "had" a R any longer. Whenever he would say anything to me, it was with a gruff/harsh tone of voice and sounded so critical or angry. But, it was a bad habit he allowed himself to get in and I had not stopped him until it go so bad that I couldn't take it any longer. That is why I told you to be very careful to speak to your W with soft tones. We slide into really bad habits and stop "working" at having a fantastic R and that is when couples start to slip apart. So, my H and I had not been good friends for a long time. I was like your W in that I felt like I had no "friends" either and I did miss the OM's conversations with me. As I've told you, my H just did not come home and talk to me at night and I am the type of person who needs that. I grew up seeing my parents do that and with me being a "talker" myself......well, of course I thought that a MR was communicating with each other every day about everything. Those past years before I had the EA were getting bad. It's not like we had knock down -- drag out fights, but we just we cranky and spoke with sharpness to each other. We didn't even realize it until one of the kids said something about it one time. It embarrassed me that we had been doing that in front of our own family and not even notice. It was as if we had slowly lost a certain amount of........maybe respect?.......I'm not really sure. But, the MR was or had died and I was very much feeling like a widow when I got involved with the OM.

Anyway, back to your stitch. As I told you before, remember how you use to be when you were dating and the things that seem to turn her on. Couldn't you tell what she liked just by the way she looked at you? Even when women try to act coy, if they are drawn sexually to a man, I think it may be something the man can sense. Do you agree? I could be wrong......just kind of talking out loud here. But anyway, as I told you before, I think to learn to become good friends goes a long way, and to keep things from getting serious. That means no R talks unless she brings it up.....okay? I doubt she is going to want to bring anything up for a long time, so don't sit around expecting her to do it. Believe me, it has been this long and I have said very, very little about the EA to my H. He has allowed me to work through it and for that, I appreciate it. You have to allow her to do the same, Stuck.

So, act as if you are having a good time at whatever is going on at home. "Make" good times happen. Even if the two of you cook supper together or clean the kitchen up......make it fun. Act as if you are not married and play with her, tease her playfully and throw in a hint of flirting. There is enough seriousness raising a family and dealing with bills, etc., so you have to make fun happen. Play with the kids by joking and just horsing around with them. Keep the atmoshere at home happy and care free. You see, if the tone is too serious, it causes the people to think about why it got to be serious, but if it is a house full of laughter and giggles and sounds of playfulness.......it helps to put what happened under the bridge and to move on with life. It also helps to forgive.

So, that is what I believe it much more important to a woman in her shoes and at this "point", than thinking about what to do that would be romantic. All of this other stuff I have talked about.......is like foreplay to her. If you can think of it like that, maybe it will be easier for you. As I used to try to tell my H, you have to set the tone for ML early in the day and not wait until 10:30 at night after no emotional preparation and think there is going to be hot sex in the city tonight! This may be the longest "foreplay" of your life, but in the end it will be worth it. I don't know how long or how hard you had to work to get your girl before she agreed to date you, but I bet you didn't give up until she did. I know things are a lot different for most people these days than they use to be, and I think in a lot of ways that is sad b/c it takes the fun out of it......LOL. Sure, it was a "game" and that's why it was called the dating game. It is the same with the mating game, too.

Well, I am just rambling now, so I need to go. Glad you are sounding better. You help me too, Stuck, to learn how it is for you H's. It helps me to know how my H feels and maybe some things he thinks about. So, this is not just a one way street. I appreciate what you share with me also.

Take care,
Sandi