WAW1

[markhaving probs]

Antlers,

Thank you for that. After Sandi's post I thought I would make a stand about me having to pay for her and the children's shoppping. She said I should pay it as its affects the children and she cannot pay both my rent here at the rental house and her own shopping. She said once the divorce has gone through the benefits she receives will allow here to be able to pay for things.

Instead of me standing my ground I caved in again. I have lost the power completely, she told her respect for me is nil and as I thought I was making tiny progress I now feel I have lost her forever. I am feeling awful again as I don't know what to do now. I feel I have probably pushed her into the OP's arms for good as I cannot keep any focus, I cannot concentrate, I feel sick and I cannot see any positive future.

My wife has secured her future, new boyfriend, a new home that I slaved over getting into shape for over a year, a new body, new wardrobe, everything is in place for her and its killing me.

I took A mental strength test yesterday and it said points over 24 required professional help. I actually scored 48, I was astounded as I know I am suffering from depression and I do not want to take any tablets, I am feeling very isolated, desperately lonely and starting to think about the point of it all really.

Most of you guys seem to be able to cope even though we all know how hard it is, but I am finding it getting more difficult for me every day, I have pushed my wife away for good, no immediate chance of a job in a career I hate, savings running out and I don't even have the energy to open letters anymore.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Mark,

There is no shame in taking anti-depressants. They are the #1 most prescribed med in the U.S., and many of us took them in order to get thru our sitch. What is the greater good here?

I finally got off mine earlier this year, only to go right back on them when I knew we were headed for divorce. THEY HELP.

Please reconsider, as I'm concerned about the way you are talking.

Puppy

[markhaving probs]

Puppy,

I just feel as though all the fantastic advice I have been given by people like you is being wasted by me. I want to DR, 180's, GAL etc, but then when sandi posts her brilliant post I then feel the 180's I identified I needed to do would be wasted as I am allowing my wife to walk all over me and sandi suggests I 'man up' and do not allow her to walk all over me.

I don't want any tablets in the house as I sometimes have an urge to go the medicine cabinet looking for tablets to take an OD with.

Do I drop all the 180's as these point to restoring some calm, balance and change, or by manning up I can see the negativity and anger increasing. I am very confused.

[Can it work]

I agree totally with Puppy Mark. You should go and see your doctor to discuss your depression. It doesn't have the stigma attached to it that it once did. It's a recognised medical condition and you could benefit greatly from taking the ADs.

Don't give up Mark. Your W seems to be an expert at knowing exactly how to hurt you. Somehow you have to take that power away from her. From what you've been saying, I feel as though you should avoid talking to her at all. Is there some neutral place you can pick the kids up from instead of going to her? She seems to goad you in to a fight every time she sees you and it's not good for you at all. You have to find the strength to be a great dad for your kids. You don't have to be in work to be a great dad, you don't have to be married to be a great dad. You just have to be there for your kids when they need you and give them all the love you possibly can.

Try to be strong Mark.

Kev

[markhaving probs]

Thanks Kev,

I just seem to have lost focus and direction. My foolhardy attempt at trying to 'man up' over the shopping was ill-conceived, not thought out properly and I knew she would not stand for it. The fact the children were there listening to our telephone conversation made me lose my train of thought as I did not want them to hear us arguing. In hindsight I should not have even mentioned the shopping and should have waited until she wanted me to do something for her then I would have set a boundary if it was warranted. How can I improve my relationship with my wife if there is always going to be confrontation?

I just do not know what to do Kev. Why is she trying to hurt me when she is getting and is doing everything she wants?

[Can it work]

I don't think we'll ever know why our W's are doing what they're doing Mark. We just need to accept it for what it is at the moment and try to use the opportunity to improve ourselves. We need to be someone attractive again. If, way down the line our W's still can't see that, at least we'll be an attractive option for someone else.

With my W I don't get the same confrontation that you seem to get with yours but I don't talk to her at all outside the times when I'm picking up or dropping off Wee Man. It would be different if I was contacting her all the time though I'm sure. I've accepted that right now she doesn't want to be talking to me all the time. For the moment that's all I can do.

You're going to have to try and keep your wits about you when you're speaking with her. Manning up doesn't mean playing her at her own game. Don't get sucked in to that. You just have to make decisions for the good of your kids and you and above all stick to them. Like I said yesterday, don't let her emotionally blackmail you so she can get her own way every time. If she's suggesting something that makes sense, by all means do it but let her know that it's your decision and not one made just because she bullied you in to it. What you said about not mentioning the shopping at the time is a good example. Don't let her rush your decisions.

I'll try and give some examples from my own sitch that will hopefully help you. When we first separated, my W and I shared all Wee Man's things like baby monitors, clothes, tooth brush, etc. but it was getting impractical to move all that stuff every time he came to visit. So, I made the decision to buy all my own stuff for him. That way, all I get is him and the clothes he's wearing when he comes to stay. It works out well and is practical. I don't know where you stand legally and how it works in England but my W is already getting all her benefits from the government but we're not divorced yet. I'm fairly sure the benefit system is the same across the UK so when she's thinking she'll only get the benefits when you're divorced, she's wrong. All you should be paying for at the moment is child support. If you go to the CSA website there's a calculator there to let you know exactly how much you should be paying. You don't even have to go through them any more as long as you're paying the right amount. I have to pay my W £66 a week for Wee Man. That's all I give her though. I had to buy her out of our house even though she had never contributed anything towards the mortgage. My other option was selling the house and giving her half the equity raised after the mortgage was paid off. I wanted to keep the house though so I never did that. You each have the right to half the equity in the family home and you each have residential rights there (my W had to sign away her residential rights before I gave her half the equity). Aside from those things, you don't have to pay for anything for your W. If your W is insisting on keeping the marital home, she's liable for the payments.

We all lose our focus and direction sometimes but we just have to find something to clear our mind and start afresh. It does get easier to do it over time. It'll get it much easier when you stop torturing yourself about the loss of your W. You lived as a single man for a long time before you met your W and you can do it again. It doesn't have to be forever but for the moment it's what you need to learn to live with once again. There's no way in its present state that your marriage is going to be saved. Only by building your own strength and finding yourself are you going to once again be a man who will earn and demand respect from his W. There's not going to be a quick fix so try and slow down and do one thing at a time. You only ever have to come on here to find support if you're feeling low. Everyone here knows where your coming from and you'll get lots of ideas on how best to deal with it.

Kev

[markhaving probs]

Kev,

I pay the mortgage and the bills because we have a fixed mortgage at the moment which we cannot redeem on until November when she buys me out. We also have joint childrens tax credit, though because they overpayed us by £5,300 a few years ago they now want it back. We cannot pay that at the moment therefore she cannot claim a single mothere allowance. Its a mess basically.

She has texted me this morning to ask what time I am to pick up the children tonight and ask me if I want her to give them tea. I said seeing as I am not picking them up until 6.00pm please could you. She then rang me and said she would give them a sandwich at 4.00pm as they are hungry and then I give them a meal later on. I said well if this is the case why ask me? I said I would give them tea but again I do not know if she is testing me to see if I would sucumb or whether she just wanted to call.

[JCJ]

Hi Mark

I'm sorry you are feeling down. When we were 'newbies' we weren't so strong. I definately needed this board to take me by the hand and guide me through it. It is just that as time passes you get stronger.

I remember that a few months after h left I was on my own in my house, very isolated as I can't drive and live where there is not good public transport. I was so ill that I was near collapse from continuous colds, stress and lack of food as I couldn't get to the supermarket and couldn't physically eat anyway. I was also trying to be 'strong' and not show weakness to anyone by not saying I need help - basically being very stubborn! I hit rock bottom and called my Mum who drove up, got me in the car and drove me to my parents house. She put me on the sofa under a duvet and cooked me meals that I picked at and her and my Dad were just 'there' for 4 days until I was better.

I tell you this because I suppose what I am saying is that the majority of us have been there in one way or another and understand how you feel, you aren't alone. It is such a horrible, and for me very lonely, time even when I was with people.

People here on the boards will give you their advice and opinions on your situation and you need to take what you think will work from that in your own situation and implement it.

There is a quote from a Pet Shop Boys song (if you like the Pet Shop Boys it is 'Se a Vida e' ) and it says

'So don't search in the stars for signs of love
Look around your life, you'll find enough'

Your children love and need you and I'm sure you have friends and family also. Hang out with them and try to take your mind off the situation. At the moment you won't get what you need from your wife, so you need to take care of yourself. That is something you are in control of.

P.S - re read that post from Phoenix Deaux I sent you, it will help. I also found swimming very threapeutic - I took out my frustration on the pool and it helped boost my happiness levels.

[markhaving probs]

J,

I will and thank you. If you look at a few texts back you will see I had an HUGE argument with my wife last night. Just as I thought were might have been making tiny progress...bang back to square one. also sandi's post has made me re-think whether my nicely nicely approach with my 180's are going to do the trick. I have no idea which way to go at the moment. forget my wife and set boundaries, or do the 180's.

[JCJ]

Is there any reason why you can't do both?

Do 180's and set boundaries?