Keel-hauled, but, more time with my kids

[Bworl]

FIB,

Man, I feel for you my friend. That last paragraph you wrote is incredibly moving. Those words place you in the part of this process that I think is perhaps the most difficult - saying goodbye to the parts of that previous life that you know were good.

I agree with you about this site. It is extremely beneficial to us when we are first dealing with the shock of a marriage on life support. The community here lifts you up, levels you off, and gives you strength when you are at your weakest. It helps us find a way to begin to understand just what is happening to our life and, slowly but surely, how to survive through it all.

But it comes with a danger as well. I think it's just a case of each of us needing to be strong enough to hear all the voices speaking to us here, but still able to make in informed decision based upon what we KNOW is happening. MWD knows that not all marriages will be saved. She knows that no matter how hard WE work, eventually we still have to have a partner who chooses at some point to labor along side us. Sadly, many of us never get that partner again.

The good news is what is often omitted here.

There is life, and good life at that, no matter how our marriage situation turns out. One of the stronger truths shared here is that our personal satisfaction with our lives should never depend on one single person. When we finally get our mental and emotional hands around that, we find the ability to live life again.

It kills me that your particular story continues to unfold so slowly. Sadly, I think it is often true that larger your financial picture, the longer the resolution takes. Perhaps that is why my story moved with such lightning speed, lol.

It's ok to feel those conflicting feelings of sadness and a longing for this madness to end. It's completely natural. And you've had it pretty bad, cohabitating with a woman who became so viscious towards you. You have no idea just how much relief is going to enter your life when this stage is finally done.

I'd love to join you all in Myrtle Beach, or anywhere else some of these fine people would choose to gather. There are many of you whom I owe at least a good firm handshake. It would be great to see that happen one day.

Look for the light at the end of the tunnel FIB, and know that this time it's not an oncoming train.


Blessings,

Bill

[poet]

Hi FIB and Bworl,

I don't much post here myself anymore either...too painful for me too. But, I do want to chime in about a couple of comments.

FIB, I don't know you and probably can only think of a handful of times, I read you or even if you ever posted to me, but...

"DB kept my sanity thru the worst parts of this but also kept me from filing when I should have."

See, this is what scares me. I ask myself, when I read something like this, am I holding off something too, that is inevitable? Am I holding something up that he wants only because of fear? Is my own fear holding me back? I hate these questions because I don't know the answers. I feel pretty confident about my position, but, at times, I just don't know. Everything he does, everthing he says, everything he seems to be saying or doing is just so confusing and contradictory to what I believe. It's hard. And just when I think about the possibility of truly giving up, someone or something pops out to change my mind again. He does something, or inadvertantly gives me a sign. These signs are often not even visible to the naked eye. For lack of a better explanation, they are only visible to the wife who knows and loves him.

"I don't regret that per se, just some of my behavior that enabled her...and not drawing boundaries earlier (like that would have stopped her anyway)."

Well, I did one thing right. I drew my boundaries very, very early in all of this, and that has helped me keep (or rather, I should say - recover) my sanity. I can thank DB and the people on these boards for that. Actually, in two more weeks, it'll be a year that we've been separated. I find that hard to believe too, but I'm still here. And I haven't fallen apart yet.


Bworl, Here's one for you, m'friend!

"But it comes with a danger as well. I think it's just a case of each of us needing to be strong enough to hear all the voices speaking to us here, but still able to make in informed decision based upon what we KNOW is happening."

I always seem to walk in danger. At least that's been my life story, until I met my H. I am finding/learning now though, that a man with as many secrets as he had/has, is not a man to marry. I can still love him, but I cannot respect him at this juncture. So, I'm in a quandry about what to do. The best I can judge, it's important for me to keep going on and saving as much as I can for the big D. If he doesn't change his mind and his ways, I'll have no choice. But, I will have my integrity, and that, I believe is what really counts.

You will always be one of my DB heroes. So, please don't blush cause it's true.

peace!
poet

[faithisbelieving]

To Bill...your words always ring with reason. G-d has given you an amazing insight. I agree with all you wrote. I KNOW...that it is the unfortunate circumstances....of 'being ordered' to stay in the house....that keeps me from being able to make the final break...the final detachment...that keeps me exposed to her inability to 'woman-up' and behave maturely.

Let's face it Bill....she can (like I've tried)..walk up to me and say, "I'm tired of this...let just be friendly and stop the crap until the divorce is done". She, too, can work to make our house a tension-free safe-haven for the children. She can act 'as-if' for the sake of D5 and S8. Not to be. So, I must endure...until this is done.

To poet....that was a difficult post to write. I am NOT an expert at this. All I can offer is past experience. My three year bomb anniversary is coming up in two weeks. I WILL say the following, tho', at the risk of angering some people here or coming across as a 'scorned husband':

• I don't believe people change...not without the intense desire to do so and without the intensive help they need to overcome old habits and ingrained behavior
• I think that our S's give us the answer to all our questions from the beginning (with a few exceptions). I love you but I want the romance back means exactly that: you're my spouse...I love you as such....but I am not attracted to you anymore and I want to get that feeling back. Almost all counselor's I have spoken to say that even if you make it to piecing, they see most people in D later on...with even more anger
• People who cheat DO have a high rate of recidivism
• G-d isn't going to fix your marriage all by himself. You can pray all you want but if you don't join in the fight, get off your duff and do your part, laissez-faire will never work. Fact...if your spouse dumped you..filed...had an affair...he/she is NOT playing by the same rules you are NOR following the Bible. She/he can very easily rationalize this by saying "G-d will forgive me". Women need leadership...attraction....listening....and can't stand a wuss..ecumenical things lol. Action + change + G-d = personal success and happiness and THAT may do it. Sitting in a pew all day won't. It will help YOU though to find the strength.
• This forum is Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. It will save your life and maximize your chances for saving your M....then metamorphose into a monster that will keep you stuck in denial, codependency and seeing babysteps....when there are none.
• everyone should try and save their marriage; when that fails, no one should stay in a destructive one

On the positive side, I am sad that I am getting D'd but I am glad that I filed. It ended a long period of pain, worrying, lack of trust, feeling the need to snoop, not knowing where my spouse was, etc.

THAT..is NOT A MARRIAGE. PERIOD. Yes...I face the same challenges now as KerryK, trapt, Bworl, Jeff223, ISLH, DonH...AV8R....I face the loss of time with my children, financial destruction, loss of my home, but.......

I have regained my sanity. I have let go of XXX...I know I won't miss her (of course..yes...I will miss what was). I am NOT angry at her (yes, I am angry at things she does still but I don't hate her). I am enjoying learning more about myself. My eyes are open now. I hate to use the word that my STBXW threw at me months (?years) ago..but...I have clarity now. I would urge people here to get Gray's book, Venus and Mars: Starting Over...and read the section on 'hope for reconciliation'. It was sobering to say the least.

I am taking great pride and joy now by being the man I always should have. I direct XXX now...not in a chauvinistic way...but leading. I am not afraid of her and I will lead my children to a place of peace until such time that I find a woman to trust and love again.....which I look forward to.

FIB

[naej]

Hi FIB, all so true but maybe some need those years of hanging on for the inevitable to be able to proceed with their journey.
Plus to suggest otherwise on some threads is shall we say unwise.

Anyway

I will lead my children to a place of peace until such time that I find a woman to trust and love again.....which I look forward to.

I am sure you will and have no doubt this will happen in the future.
Many many blessings to you.

[faithisbelieving]

naej....no one should outwardly tell someone "you need to get a divorce".

On the other hand, at times, it helps when someone stands up and shouts "the emperor has no clothes."

FIB

[fb2]

FIB,
I've seen some of your posts and I sense the intensity of your pain. Some questions...
Why are you 'forced' to stay in the house? What exactly do you mean by 'leader' and 'clarity' ?

[faithisbelieving]

Everyone senses pain...I assure you there is none...except towards the impending loss of time with my kids.

Leader...many of us here..as men...become fearful of their wives...afraid to set boundaries....laissez faire...fear that if you say something, say no or draw a line that they are going to push their W's away etc. In the past, here in this forum...we had a big discussion on the phrase 'wuss' and alpha male. The words initially give a certain impression which is wrong.....

Leader means that you direct your family ....you make decisions that need to be made...you protect your kids...you set boundaries...you guide...I do homework with them and refused to allow her to take that away from me (she tried)...I stay in their lives....simply that.

Clarity...for me...was realizing that sitting around waiting for a lightening bolt to hit my W...for that "3-5 years" to arrive...for that "hope for reconciliation" to arrive....was fear and codependency and pure denial

Clarity was seeing how I failed to see what true love was in an M...how many of us don't understand women....how errors were made in choosing a companion....how insidious changes can take you off course.....

Clarity...is..just that....really seeing the truth...and realizing that you/we were only operating with the tools we had at the time and that understanding yourself is a better place to be


I am 'forced' to stay in the house for the following reasons. In the State of NY, the three main reasons for D are constructive abandonment (sexual abandonment), cruel and inhuman treatment and 12 month legal separation. NY requires you 'to find fault' with the other person. If either my W left or I left, I would be required by law to pay FULL TEMPORARY SUPPORT to my W and kids...not a calculated settlement. Once that happens, a divorce in our state can drag on for years because the woman typically enjoys the large support judgement. Thus...by 'staying' in the house it does one of several things:

• by showing that I paid virtually all the bills, my W was unable to prove that she needed maintenance and child support and the pendente lite was FAVORABLE for me. I basically was ordered to just continue to pay the bills and live at home with my kids
• I can't be shown to have abandoned my children thus giving me strong weight for joint physical custody. I initially filed for FULL CUSTODY,so, I HAD TO stay in the residence
• it forces a settlement (who wants to live this way?). My atty tells me over and over that if I leave or get ordered out, I will never get divorced

She is counseled similarly, I'm sure. Ultimately, I will most likely end up being asked to leave.
FIB

[faithisbelieving]

FINALLY

My atty called today. The initial draft of my appraisal is in and it's.......

FAVORABLE TO ME

Thank G-d. We may be entering the next phase...custody.

FIB

[smith18]

Hi Frank,

Good to hear progress is coming along, but still at glacial speeds.

What is the timeline to determine custody schedules? Is your STBXW willing to work with you on this some or is she the kind that seeks the most amount of custody so as to get the most amount of CS?

My initial filing was for full custody, but I worked with the W and we agreed to 50/50 which is what I believe is in the best interest of the kids. We are using a 5/5/2/2 schedule which I really like. I have the kids every Mon/Tue nights and alternate Fri/Sat/Sun. It makes it so I can do girl scouts on Monday and cub scouts on Tuesday. I am a free bachelor dude on every Wed/Thur night.

[Jeff223]

Favorable?

That is good news. Hope it does not just mean that after you pay her off, and your lawyer, that favorable means that you can eat red meat once a week (even if it is only ground chuck).

Reminds me of a joke about the stages of sex in a marriage:

House sex: when you do it in every room, frequently.

Bedroom sex: when you do it only in the bedroom, infrequently.

Dark Bedroom sex: same as above but you need the lights off.

Hall sex: when she passes you in the hall and says F-You.

Court sex: when her lawyer passes you in court and says F-You. And then takes everything you got.

Solo sex: the only kind single dads over 50 get. Ask me how I know.

But anyway, celebrate the small victories.

Strength and Honor.