Learning to Detach

[kjensen]

Peace,
I understand what you are saying. I don't recall my H 'baiting' me unless we're n the middle of an escalating argument. Would H apologize if he was "baiting me?" Just pondering.

[peacetoday]

K
I think your H just wants to make things really clear
like how he feels today
so no matter how close you get and how positive the connections are, he is done
in their MLC mind they beleive they are done
they do not see any possible way to work it out and I think even if they do, they wont admit it

I connected with my XH for many visits
he was visiting 4x a week when he left and stayed for many hours each time
sometimes I would leave sometimes stay
I tried to emotionally connect with him and we experienced mnay positive conversations
where he opened up partially
I think we were close at times and got along better than while M
IN my case, it didtn work to turn him around..i finally gave up trying to connect

Your H is different than mine
He is more open
and seems someway hopeful
but
It is still going to take the time it takes for a mler to sort thru th crises
this crises is not abbout the M
But about their isnner issues from childhood so ive read
peace

[kjensen]

I've been hopeful that I had gotten past the anger towards H. But this weekend I find myself driving(w/o kids) and cursing H out loud. Not sure why the anger keeps returning, although the length of time that I indulge and feel the anger is shorter each time, but it still keeps coming back...

Rainy, dreary weekend here in usually sunny Colorado.kind of mirroring my internal angst I suspect or vice versa..Not heard from H since Friday night so it seems to be a repeat of last weekend...I am doing my own thing, hanging with the girls..
I just have to say, emotionally weekends have really stunk lately!

[Walking]

KJ - I've been thinking about this

I didn't get a chance to do nothing about H's email to the school counselor-ok I could have said nothing but I didn't- H called me at work and told me he forwarded the email to me that he had sent the school counselor and asked what I thought. I said I thought it was good except for one sentence-and told him the sentence-and said i wouldn't have said that. I said I thought he was still conflicted, which he then again stated he was, so I stated that that statement in the email puzzled me.

He apologized for the statement. He said that as he explained on the way home from communication class Tues night, he doesn't see how (we)it would work out. He also said that night that he didn't think it mattered what he wanted or what I wanted, that he didn't see a way to work things out.

Your H has been telling you - kindly and assertively that he doesn't see any hope for working things out. He's been saying it for a long time now. Probably since before he moved out of the house. He sugars it up with weasle words that you can construe to believe he's conflicted - but the things that he's (bravely to him) telling you indicate that he's done.

Now, when you question that, I said I thought he was still conflicted, which he then again stated he was, he's feeling unheard, pursued and that his brave statements about not seeing any hope for the relationship (and they are brave to him, because you guys have a long history of being loving and polite to each other - I bet he's never told you your butt looks big in those jeans? - he's a nice guy and he absolutely wants to minimise the hurt he knows his conflict is causing you)are going in one of your ears and out the other.

You are doing what we all do and only hearing the parts you want to hear. He's using those parts that you want to hear to soften the impact of the things he's trying to get you to understand.

KJ - there is nothing you can do to change your husband's mind about where he is at the moment. Seems to me that by behaving in the same way you always have (not hearing the things you don't want to hear) you are giving him even more ammunition for his decisions.

DBing won't bring your H back home - but if you follow the guidlines it will take the focus off you and allow him to work this stuff through in his own mind. He doesn't want you to tell him what to think. He doesn't want you to remind him he's conflicted. He doesn't want you to mother him.

Right now, like it or not, he doesn't want you.

That's not a bad thing - and it's not inconsistant with how a lot of men go through this life crisis. Importantly it does not mean that there is no hope for your marriage. I think there is heaps of hope, if you drop the rope.

You need to give him a chance to miss you. You need to give him a chance to make his own decisions as a man. You need to show him that you lovingly support his decisions (even if you don't like them).

I can almost guarantee he called you to get the reaction to that e-mail because he was checking that by putting it in writing to a third party you finally understood what he was saying. What you told him was not only that you refused to understand what he was saying - but you also think he didn't do a very good job of expressing what was going on to the Counsellor.

Imagine what might have been differnet if you had have said something as simple as

"Thanks for writing to her, I'm grateful you are taking responsiblity for that stuff - it's tough for me."

He would have felt validated, he would have felt heard (and you wouldn't have made a judgement about if you liked what you heard or not, you would have just acknowledged that you heard).

This is tough stuff. Yes - weekends at this stage of your journey do stink - but you are smart and clever and you're learning. You are going to be OK.

Thinking of you.
v

[kjensen]

Hi Virginia,
Your insight is appreciated. As much as it hurts to think my H is not conflicted and really wants to be done, I think you may be right. He is a nice guy.

I think weekends stink b/c I realize he really doesn't care anymore, if he did he would contact me. I'm pretty sure he spent time with the OW this weekend. He was supposed to be available to pick up D13 from bowling today and she called and left him a message around 11:40am. I just saw online he texted her back this evening-late.

I think I've been in Denial, not wanting to feel utterly rejected, but I can see that I have been utterly rejected. It hurts and makes me angry. I think the inconsistency of H's actions(rejection) with his words(still conflicted) is part of what angers me.

I know H wants me to stop mothering and believe me I do it a lot less, but my therapist notes that when its convenient for H to have my 'mothering' help(asking abut medicine/getting recipes..eating lunch at the house with me)he does ask for it and gets it b/c I'm still trying to be a friend.

So let's get into specifics of cutting the cord/dropping the rope, b/c up til now those have been just words and I haven't tried to understand the action behind them.

Do I stop being a friend?

Since I usually see H during the week, should I start(again) leaving for work before he might arrive, staying away at lunch?

We still have several communication classes where I will see/interact with him. Should I drive down separately?

I have stopped alot of mothering behaviors I did, what else should I do/not do? Do I tell H he needs to move his office asap?-as much as we both have talked about it, he hasn't made a move really-just says he's not sure how the logistics would work...excuses b/c the situation is in his benefit.

He's really gotten all the money from our joint account savings that he should have-the rest(checking) is all mine, from my paycheck.

Do we schedule the girls to visit him at his apartment, even though they don't want to go here?

I just need specific ideas, understandings of what I might start doing. I don't want to be that woman who is stuck and creates her own limbo/worst nightmare. If H is done and there isn't hope, I want to move on. How do I know if there's hope? All I've seen they gave me hope, has just been shown (I think correctly) as a way for H to soften the blow.

I've gotten on with my life as much as I can-mostly its just more cleaning/yard work/shuttling my girls around..I see my friends when I have time. I exercise, I journal and read.

I haven't detached mentally, but as everyone has noted that takes time. I keep trying.

Any specific advice re: what I can do with this somewhat connected weekly routine?

I will be out of town 3 days this week and H is staying here at the house with the girls. I was planning on checking in with the girls while I was gone, but wasn't sure if I should check in with H..I would check in with whoever was watching the girls normally, so I wasn't sure if it would be rude to ignore H and just text/call the girls on their cells..Thoughts?

[kjensen]

One more specific question I'm struggling with. H still has stuff here(some winter clothes, high school yearbooks, old letters from me and others). Do I box them up and tell H to take them? Does it matter? I guess I really need help with this cut the rope idea..Do I sever all interactions as much as possible..the more I think about things I could do, the more I get confused..

[kjensen]

OK, So no input?
Here's an update for what its worth. H got here earlier than usual this morning so I wasn't able to get the kids out the door before he arrived(per my plan). I asked how his weekend was and he said " Not good". I asked if he wanted to share and he said "Not right now, maybe later.." So I left with the girls and wished him a nice morning-all very upbeat and detached.. At lunch I did come home and H and I had lunch. I made my own and sat down to eat, H came in and joined me(so I didn't do my usual and ask what he would like and fix it for him).

The weather was nice so I asked him if he'd like to go for a walk(as his C suggested he do every day)-he did so we walked around the neighborhood. H shared his feelings about life(the world is falling on him, everything he owns is falling apart)and work. Basically vented. I validated and just listened. H said he went cycling on his own (NO OW!!) yesterday in the mountains. He felt contemplative this weekend and wanted to be alone. He said he was crying more lately and especially last night when he texted D13. He felt he was going backwards emotionally and his antidepressants weren't working. At one point I held H's hand and he held it firmly for awhile...

Since I didn't know what else to do given this situation, I supported H by listening and validating. I remained emotionally detached-my only physical move was the holding hands briefly.
I didn't offer advice or suggestions-no mothering (except holding hands? would that be mothering?)

H had dinner with me and the girls tonight then took D13 to the highschool for activity info for next year. He came in when dropping D13 back here after it was done and shared the info the had found out. Then he left for his place.

So I hope I did OK as far as DBing within the scope of still befriending H. I feel I'm in gray territory and just not sure how to proceed. Our couples communicaton class is tomorrow night. I'm re-reading DR for refresher.

Any ideas or suggestions would be very, very welcome!

[peacetoday]

There is no real clear cut path here
everyone may have ideas
but what Ive learned from my 2 years here is nothing really works b/c it is a crises
so for me becoming less available to my XH didnt make him miss me
or come home
maybe it helps them see what life will be like without us
maybe it helps them move on in their crises
dropping the rope helped me move on and made it easier to NOT be emotionally connected to H
I started only saying Hi and Bye and I left a lot
no smalltale no business talk ect.
No talk --things like that..H would withdraw --so the R becomes very dead when we stop communicating
no one knlkws how your H might react
he may withdraw more
he may seek you out more
You can try these techniques , then notice what they do
The crises will still run its course

many of these mlcers saw us as mothering maybe thaat was part of the problem in the M
when a child grows up they leave home?
You are doing well thoiugh
hang in there
peace

[Walking]

Hi KJ - I did write you a response last night (I'm in Australia so I'm at the end of my day when you are at the beginning) but it's lost in cyber space.

I'm at work now but I'll get back to you shortly. I think you did well with interaction with H today.

Also - the key thing I wanted to say in my lost post is that this doesn't mean he doesn't care about you. It just means he's preoccupied with "caring" about himself right now.

Thinking of you. V

[Walking]

I don't know why I always stutter on this computer ... I'll try to just make it one post at a time!!