Talks were back on tonight with W and we've just finished and for the first time ever W didn't manage to tie me up in knots.
The talks started with W wanting to know why I didn't respect her privacy on the computer and why I thought she was having an A. I told her there's no point in discussing the latest incident, as I thought this marriage was done. I said I was tired of all of that had gone on before and wanted to talk separation and all it's implications as we are parent of a child, we have a mortgage, no savings and we would need to decide the best way forward. W didn't want to go there at all, she just wanted to talk about her right to privacy on the computer. She insisted on leading the discussions this way, so I let her know why I didn't respect her privacy, I hit on a number of things but I think these are the high points.
Her past infidelity. Not resolving the issues leading to infidelity. lack of trust on both sides and us not doing anything to rebuild trust. Boundaries - this was a big one, if she was discussing intimate, or sexual matters with a person unknown to me then this was over stepping the boundaries which are acceptable in any normal M let alone ours. Secret friends - on this issue W responded that she kept this particular friend secret because I was a jealous husband. I told her she was entitled to any friends but if she was keeping them secret that raises suspicions and does nothing to help our M.
I asked W out right if she was engaged in sexual activities or sexual discussions with this person to which she answered No. Well I know there has been sexual discussion, but I couldn't confirm any contact so I didn't challenge this further. W asked me what material I had which made me think this was the case. I told her I had nothing I just threw that out there to get a reaction. She responded that she hadn't givin me a reaction as ther was nothing going on.
I told W I could see no way forward for us and if she wanted the family to stay together as she always talked about then she was going the wrong way about it. Funnily enough this prompted W to say from out of the blue that we needed counselling. Normally I would have immediately latched on to this, but I had to remind W that I have mentioned counselling on many occasions and the last time I mentioned it she said "No [censored] way am I going to sit in a room and let some [censored] idiot try to tell me how to run my M". Anyway after a short pause I told her if she was open to counselling I could organise it through my company.
So that was the jist of the talks, probably not a one sided as the post may suggest I may have missed the bits about W asking what I would think to her discussing things further on IM with this person again as he was a person with problem and she was helping him. I said she entitled to any friend male or female if it is in the open, but in this case I would not be happy as this friendship started out as a secret. I ended by saying to W we need to talk more and not just when there is a crisis so we'll end now and talk more tomorrow.
<< Anyway after a short pause I told her if she was open to counselling I could organise it through my company.
Lan, If you are going this route beware of the following: (1) how effective the counselor is: marriage counseling is very difficult. (2) attitude and expectation going in: both must be willing to want to do ALL it takes to change themselves, not the other person.
Echo what has been said. Only do counselling if it's for a joint purpose. I.E. to either save the marriage or how to break up easily and co parent etc. I Don't think it's worth couple's counselling (from experience) if your both after different things.
Also, something I was not aware of. The problems have been there since 02 you say, wow, that is some long time. Have you taken a step back and asked yourself what you actually want anymore ? Is it your wife ? Is it just it's what you know ? Is it the fear of the unknown ? and is worth continuing to fight for your family worth what you may continue to go through ?
Lan - You know how much people respect you and your patience etc on this board and that we all think you are unbelievable, I just want you to now, after so long and so much effort, to really put yourself first. You deserve a happy life, you've tried your hardest so now, for me it's really time for your W to take some responsibility.
GL buddy and it's always your choice and nobody else's and we all will continue to support and respect whatever choices you make.
Wow, Lan. So maybe, just maybe, the stuff you snooped up isn't as bad as you thought. For example, maybe she's giving this M friend advice about sex "from the woman's point of view" (we'll just let her own issues slide as we ponder that possibility, OK?)
It seems like you've crossed a threshold here - dropped a bomb on HER, really. So many sitches start with a long period of coasting and not addressing issues, then things build up to an explosion and change comes. Maybe this is the start of some good forward motion for your sitch, after biding your time for too long. I sure hope that's how it goes - keep us posted and hang in there!
Thread #10 22 year M, MLC, Piecing since 1/07 Goal: Live with confidence & enthusiasm!
Lan, To echo everything said above yet again ... good you are finally catching the bull directly by the horns and being a real BAMF (Bad As? MF)- many of us get to this point after years of 'head in the sand' from fear, insecurity, denial, ignorance, etc.
As far as going to MC to help with getting a D - my W pulled that one on me after we went a couple of times. I was willing to go IF she really wanted to work on the M - that's what MC is for in my book. You need to get this straight at the outset and have these cards put on the table in front of the counselor at the outset otherwise its useless.
