The adventure continues- part 4

[gucci loafer]

Does it sound like she's pursuing now?

She sure was.... That is because YOU stopped all pursuit and finally got her to WONDER what is going on with you. I told you this would happen and that you HAD TO PASS THE TEST WHEN SHE CALLED. (and she DID call) (I told you she would)

She said, assuming the invitation is still open and I decide I want to come back, how will I deal with that?

Feeling you out here.

I said, honestly, you'll have to do the best you can to make her feel special and do right by her no matter what happens as she's your daughter. She then said, I can't make up my mind. Again, I didn't respond.

Wrong answer. You SHOULD have said.. "I'm not sure that is what I want anymore. (and then shut up) The whole conversation would have been changed at that point...

Instead... Your answer validated that you are STILL there for her at her whim. (not attractive or strong)

She then said, I can't make up my mind. Again, I didn't respond.

SEE? You told her in your earlier answer that you were still waiting for HER to make a decision. Men who are successful with women don't allow women do say these things to them because they don't put up with this behavior. It ISN'T her decision and when you discover that and apply it you will be set free and she will then have her chance to wonder if she has screwed up her chance. It won't happen UNTIL you get some backbone and are willing to put the whole relationship on the line.

She said, hell, by the time I decide, you might not even want me back

This comment would not have been said if you would have told her earlier that you were not sure how YOU feel right now. She is not going to suddenly get her feelings back for a man that doesn't show some toughness and some integrity here. You need to show her that you value yourself much more than that. Allowing her (and that is all you are doing here) to treat you like this shows you lack value in yourself. (not attractive traits to lure a lover)

She said I find myself driving by your work to see if your car is there and wondering where you are if it's not

BINGO..READ THIS OVER AGAIN.. AGAIN....You "had" her moving in the right direction. She is practically telling you that she will chase you when you let her wonder if she has gone too far. She needs some drama in her life. Give it to her.

She said why don't you go out on a date this weekend.I stepped in and said, we have had this conversation before, I'm married and I don't go out on dates with other women.

WRONG ANSWER...

Taking this stance has gotten you nowhere. She has had SEX WITH 3 OR 4 MEN... That sure hasn't stopped you from wanting her back has it?

I recommend highly that when she asks you to go on a date that you say something to the effect of....

"You may be right. I am considering it." (then shut up)

Trying to say that "you stand for your marriage and don't go on dates with other women and then on the other hand saying that you will though tolerate a woman doing it too you and take HER back no matter what she has done isn't consistent. If you truly want to be consistent, here, then it would be more consistent to say "I don't date other women when I am married and I don't stay married to a woman who dates other men while married to me either." THAT is consistent. That is strong.

Jealousy is a button that could very well bring her back. I don't know why you wouldn't use all tools at your disposal. I would have told her for sure that I was SERIOUSLY thinking about taking her up on her offer and then shut up. I would BET that if you left her wondering, then she would have been dying to know in a few days if you had indeed done it. Let her deal with THAT response huh?

I tried my best not to sound down and to be honest I wasn't this afternoon so it wasn't that tough.

I don't like to waste too much time giving advice to those who get wishy washy. I told you a few days ago how to respond when she calls you (and I told you she WOULD.. and she DID)

I told you to have a few words of small talk.. and then what did I tell you?.....

"Hey, I was just walking out the door, or I was just..... or I was just"..

This call from her was your perfect chance to get this moving your way. She had been thinking the correct thoughts in the last few days since you have turned off the chase. She even told you she was driving by to see where your car was.... You had her moving your way but not enough confidence to "hold the line" and cut her off nicely, but quickly by telling her "you were just walking out the door".. That was the PERFECT opening for you. PERFECT....

Your self esteem is so low that you can't seem to see or understand how effective gettting some backbone is. You have been wavering the past few days because of panic and because you hadn't heard from her. She isn't going to come back until she feels you have let go and are not going to tolerate a woman who can't make up her mind whether she loves you or whether she loves another man. I would make the decision for her. It may not be the one she was prepared for.....

[AFWAW]

I said, honestly, you'll have to do the best you can to make her feel special and do right by her no matter what happens as she's your daughter. She then said, I can't make up my mind. Again, I didn't respond.

Wrong answer. You SHOULD have said.. "I'm not sure that is what I want anymore. (and then shut up) The whole conversation would have been changed at that point...

Instead... Your answer validated that you are STILL there for her at her whim. (not attractive or strong)

Ok, I see what you're saying here--I actually thought I was leaving it for her to wonder about when I said no matter what happens--I can see where I need some work on this--I just need to transition to actually saying it--this has been a problem for me always--I haven't told her I feel about things as I feared she would get angry--I know that's very weak.

You know, the funny thing is, I'm not sure how I feel right now so this actually wouldn't be a lie--I really have thought about what you said the other day and have reread what you wrote about 5-6 times a day so please don't think you are wasting your time.

She said, hell, by the time I decide, you might not even want me back

This comment would not have been said if you would have told her earlier that you were not sure how YOU feel right now. She is not going to suddenly get her feelings back for a man that doesn't show some toughness and some integrity here. You need to show her that you value yourself much more than that. Allowing her (and that is all you are doing here) to treat you like this shows you lack value in yourself. (not attractive traits to lure a lover)

Your self esteem is so low that you can't seem to see or understand how effective gettting some backbone is. You have been wavering the past few days because of panic and because you hadn't heard from her. She isn't going to come back until she feels you have let go and are not going to tolerate a woman who can't make up her mind whether she loves you or whether she loves another man. I would make the decision for her. It may not be the one she was prepared for.....

You're absolutely right--my self-esteem is low. I know I have some work to do. I will continue to fine tune what I say and work on my interactions with her. Believe me when I say, with every day that goes by, I find myself thinking about what life would be like without her and what I'm going to do. I'm not sitting around tomorrow night, I'm actually going out w/ some folks from work. So, gucci, thanks again for your words of wisdom.

[gucci loafer]

this has been a problem for me always--I haven't told her I feel about things as I feared she would get angry--I know that's very weak.

Fear will paralyze you. There is nothing to fear about getting tough here. It is needed. You have to understand about women.
Right now is not the time to tell her your every feeling. Now is the time to let her wonder about your feelings. There is a huge dfference in telling a woman your feelings while in an ongoing relationship, it is quite another to reveal all your feelings when they are not sure about whether they love you or not.

You know, the funny thing is, I'm not sure how I feel right now so this actually wouldn't be a lie--I really have thought about what you said the other day and have reread what you wrote about 5-6 times a day so please don't think you are wasting your time.

Of course you don't know how you feel. Tell her that when SHE opens the door again. We are not worried about what you really feel, what the concern is has to be how SHE feels and how to "help" her to start thinking different thoughts (and her conversation with you revealed that she was beginning to sort through those things. That was because you were NOT chasing and asking if she has made up her mind.)

I have been observing your thread for the last couple of days.
You have been in a panic type mode. The reason was because she hadn't called you. She WILL call. Trust in that. Wait her out. (it makes you look stronger emotionally than her, which is what a helps women look at you in a different light. You HAVE to let her see that YOU ARE STRONGER THAN HER EMOTIONALLY. That takes a backbone. That takes leaving her alone. That takes appearing as if you have possibly moved on.
When she feels that (and she was "starting" to feel it) she then will start asking and saying the very things she did. YOUR job is to stay pulled back and let her keep moving toward you. Remember.. NO PRESSURE. NONE. The way to take off the pressure is to do the things I am advising you to do. Get off the phone politely, yet quickly by saying things like .."I was just.... or I was just.. I talk to you later.. ta ta".. Not mean. Not punitive.. Then you let her sit on that again.. It may take a day. It may take a couple of days. It may take longer... Your job is to say to yourself... "NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES, I will not chase and I will not pressure.

Here is what has been going on regarding the OM.. She STILL thinks she loves him or is still in contact with him. My gut feeling is that he went back to his wife and dumped your wife for the time being. You don't need anymore information than that.
Driving by her house or place is not the right approach. We already KNOW she still is hanging in there to see what is going to happen (hhhmmm same thing you are doing).... This is what women do. She is waiting to see what is going to happen with him. Since you are no big worry, then she can wait it out. Ole AFWAW will still be there. You need to pull the rug out from under her. The OM is NOT going to leave his wife. That is yet another reason why you getting tough here is in your favor. Women HATE to be alone without a man to lean on. You need to get her to wonder if she has lost you, so that her thoughts start changing to thinking about YOU and what YOU are doing. Remember.. Feelings follow thoughts. When she starts to think different thougths, is when her feelings will automaically change. Her thoughts need to be... "Have I lost AFWAW.. Is he seeing someone else, why did I tell him to start dating, why isn't he calling me anymore, why is he so short with me on the phone, did I go too far?".. and round and round and round she goes. She doesn't think those thoughts UNTIL you let go. How can she? She really needs to FEEL that you have. She can't feel it because you haven't shown her.

Believe me when I say, with every day that goes by, I find myself thinking about what life would be like without her and what I'm going to do. I'm not sitting around tomorrow night, I'm actually going out w/ some folks from work. So, gucci, thanks again for your words of wisdom.

I do have a hard time believing you on that one. The last few days you have become wishy washy and suddenly were acting like you were going to panic. There is no panic here. We WANT HER TO PANIC.

You should be acting as if..... "Wow.. the single life is pretty darn great.. there sure are a lot of women out here that would just LLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOVVVVE to have a man like me... I think I am going to start to live life to the fullest... When you look up fun in the dictionary, you will see my picture with a huge cat eaten grin."

You either get busy living or get busy dying......Women are attracted to men like this... Confident, secure, high self esteem (bordering on cocky) funny, emotionally strong,and ones that DO NOT ALLOW unaccetable behavior. A man who has no second thoughts about turning the other way and showing her that I am valuable. I will NOT share my love with a third person in the picture. If THAT is what you choose, then so be it, but you CAN NOT have me too. I will be perfectly fine without you, and as a matter of fact, this may be for the best. There are PLENTY of women that would looooooovvvve to have a man like me.... (you then go find one)

That is the attitude that works.... (Been there done that and found out how right I am).......

[davidswife]

WOW - what Gucci said, and this is a woman's opinion.

[gucci loafer]

You didn't think I just make this up as I go along did you?

[StrgMarvelousWmn]

Gucci--

You offer great perspective from a man dealing with a wife in an affair. What about the reverse--any suggestions that will not offend my Christian sensibilities?

Living God's blessings with grace and dignity~
SMW

[AFWAW]

Who are you? Where do you get this stuff and why the hell didn't I have this info when I needed it 10 years ago? Seriously, this is good stuff. You should write a book--you'd make millions.

Fear will paralyze you.

I have pondered over what my marriage was like before and have realized that my wife is/was a bully and I lived in fear of pissing her off. Not a good way to live, I know. I have shared less and less about my feelings with her and hear you loud and clear about NOT sharing my feelings with her at this point.

Of course you don't know how you feel. Tell her that when SHE opens the door again. We are not worried about what you really feel, what the concern is has to be how SHE feels and how to "help" her to start thinking different thoughts (and her conversation with you revealed that she was beginning to sort through those things. That was because you were NOT chasing and asking if she has made up her mind.)

Ok, I will tell her that the next time the opportunity presents itself.

You have been in a panic type mode. The reason was because she hadn't called you. She WILL call.

You're right! I have been in panic mode. I didn't believe you before but based on yesterdays phone call, I am now a major believer in the gucci philosophy.

Believe me when I say, with every day that goes by, I find myself thinking about what life would be like without her and what I'm going to do. I'm not sitting around tomorrow night, I'm actually going out w/ some folks from work. So, gucci, thanks again for your words of wisdom.

I do have a hard time believing you on that one. The last few days you have become wishy washy and suddenly were acting like you were going to panic. There is no panic here. We WANT HER TO PANIC.

I am actually going to go out tomorrow night and shoot pool. I am feeling better today. Remember, it's only been a little while since I've learned the horrible truth and it's taken me some time to get through the emotions.

You either get busy living or get busy dying......Women are attracted to men like this... Confident, secure, high self esteem (bordering on cocky) funny, emotionally strong,and ones that DO NOT ALLOW unaccetable behavior. A man who has no second thoughts about turning the other way and showing her that I am valuable. I will NOT share my love with a third person in the picture. If THAT is what you choose, then so be it, but you CAN NOT have me too. I will be perfectly fine without you, and as a matter of fact, this may be for the best. There are PLENTY of women that would looooooovvvve to have a man like me.... (you then go find one

You are truly a man wise about women. I can see multiple mistakes that I have made over the years and now realize that I have major self-esteem issues. I will continue to work on this and fine tune my approach and responses to interactions with the wife and other women in the future. You have given me a lot to think about. Thanks again for your wise words.

John

[LG nm12]

AF:

Gucci is telling the truth about women. We need our men to lead and to dictate the tone of the marriage. If you start LIVING YOUR LIFE FOR YOU, you will be so attractive to all women (not just her, though it is starting to baffle me that you would want her back).

You and I share a similar trait. We aren't strategic thinkers with regard to relationships. We are only able to act out the truth in our heart. This is why, I think, you are having trouble thinking about what to say in the moment. The only way that you are going to act out Gucci's suggestions is to MOVE ON in your heart.

Allow me to help you do that.

She has disrespected you and has squandered her body among several men outside the marriage. She is stringing you along, playing you the fool and the chump. She is STILL WITH OM - believe it. Where is your pride and self respect? Do not allow this for one second longer. Do not wait.

What would you say to your brother or your best friend if he was in your situation? What would you think of him if you saw him sitting there letting life happen to him?

Forget her and move on. Go have fun, look your best, chin up, smile.

Get in the headspace so that your truth in your heart matches Gucci's advice. It shouldn't be that hard based on her behavior.

Lucky

[AFWAW]

Lucky,
You have some very strong points however at this point I'm not sure what I want. On the one hand, I still love my wife and would like very much to get back together with her. On the other, as you so eloquently stated there are some good reasons to just move on. You of all people(a person that acts out from the heart)must have some understanding why I would want to save my marriage and rebuild it to be stronger.

She has disrespected you and has squandered her body among several men outside the marriage. She is stringing you along, playing you the fool and the chump. She is STILL WITH OM - believe it. Where is your pride and self respect? Do not allow this for one second longer. Do not wait.

You're absolutely right! That doesn't make it easy to take her back if she decides she wants to really commit to our marriage again. She may still be w/ the OM. I believe you may be right. I think my trip to her apartment will tell me all I need to know. It will tell me if she truly has dumped OM and is seriously considering coming home or and as I suspect you and everyone else is correct that she is playing me for a fool.

If the latter is the case then I will more than likely file next week as I have plenty of reasons. I am an optimist believe it or not(I know you probably cannot tell based on my posts)and want to believe that she has dumped him though.

What would you say to your brother or your best friend if he was in your situation? What would you think of him if you saw him sitting there letting life happen to him?

I would tell them what my couselor told me--that's a decision you have to make for yourself, no one else can make it for you and you have to live with it. It's not an easy decision--probably will affect me for the rest of my life.

Forget her and move on. Go have fun, look your best, chin up, smile.

I'm halfway there on the latter part of this. The first part is not as easy.

[JayMan]

AFWAW,
I'll chime in here - my W is in an affair. I have done the old "I'll-never-date-I'm-married" thing as well. The deal is that I WON'T date while I'm married - I respect marriage too much.

But, there is a "special person" that I have been talking a lot too, and the kids have started talking about (because they like her and her kids) and W has been informed by them that we are going to do stuff as play dates.

I didn't realize what an impact it would have - W has made it a point to not really say anything to me - and she is sort of ho-hum about the affair (kind of funny actually). Ever since she found out about this other woman, she has been going all ga-ga over OM. She also called me and said she wanted to come be with us this weekend at a fun thing at their school - up til now she has completely avoided ANYTHING that was family time.

I just have to chuckle - I am just friends with this woman, and have zero plans to date or anything. I haven't been jealous at all of W and OM - just hate what it's doing to our kids and family. But when the tables are turned, things start happening.

Seriously, you don't have to lie - but if she says you should date, just say, "OK". If she is surprised, and presses you on it, just say, "We'll see". Be vague, and watch her go nuts. But, I cannot stress this enough, do NOT change until you see real changes from her. I went dark on my W for a month - and she started pursuing me. Didn't see OM for a month. I started responding, and talking to her, and a couple weeks later, it was back on with OM. Until she admits to wrong-doing, seeks help, commits to the right thing, and so on, you don't budge.

Trust me on this - here's the best part. If it drives her AWAY from you, then she's not in the right place, and isn't be ready.