Holding onto Hope

[In Limbo]

I have a DB question. The guidance is for the LBS not to be too available (not answer phone right away). But what if one of the main complaints of the sep spouse is that they felt the LBS was not available enough to them (didn't always answer phone right away)? Do you still do that or do you answer immediately as a 180? In my case, I used to be bad about not always keeping my cell with me, sometimes forgot and left it on silent, etc. and it made my H so mad when he couldn't get me. So now I don't know if I should change that behavior or follow the DB guidance. Any thoughts?

[In Limbo]

Lies, lies and more lies. So much for the "wake up call" H had. Now he's at home, but going out tomorrow night with OW and lying about it. I have DBd my butt off and had thought this might be our chance. But he's still as screwed up as he was before the DUI and I'm a fool for thinking otherwise. I thought I'd been doing so much for myself, but I was fooling myself there too. Too much has still been about H. What a fool I am. I don't want him to leave, but I don't think I can live with the lies and pretending "as if." How do so many of you do this for so long? How do you finally get to the point where "as if" really isn't so fake?

[In Limbo]

Sandi and others,

So now that he plans to go...what do I do? I actually don't know for sure that he's going with OW, but she's the only other person on the planet that he's told he's taking lessons, so who else would it be? Oh, and did I add that he's skipping his S7's baseball game to go? Nice, huh? So I need some good guidance/tips on how to handle things when he comes home (since he's home this week he'll come home after the party). I don't know if I have enough self-control to manage that. Help!

[sandi2]

Wow! I was hoping that I was really wrong and that he had a wake-up call that would stick. At first, it probably did shake him up, but those times that he started acting withdrawn and quiet?.....that was when he was trying to make up his mind about whether or not to continue seeing the OW. He was also probably dealing with guilt feelings, but OW must have won out.

I tell ya, sweetie, I would be like you in that I don’t know that I could handle the acting “as if”, but.....but if you can, you could try this experiment to see if it gets you anywhere. I was about to respond to one of your post....well, I’ll just put it in a quote box:

“

I have a DB question. The guidance is for the LBS not to be too available (not answer phone right away). But what if one of the main complaints of the sep spouse is that they felt the LBS was not available enough to them (didn't always answer phone right away)? Do you still do that or do you answer immediately as a 180? In my case, I used to be bad about not always keeping my cell with me, sometimes forgot and left it on silent, etc. and it made my H so mad when he couldn't get me. So now I don't know if I should change that behavior or follow the DB guidance. Any thoughts?”

As a “general” rule, that is what's advised, but I wasgoing to tell you that since he has said that he needed you to show more emotional support and (probably availability), that maybe you should not use that technique b/c it does show you being rather “hard to get”. If you have the stomach for it and can do it, you could try a while longer to see if there are any changes in his behavior. The reason I suggest that you try to continue to act as if everything is okay, is b/c he could be still trying to make up his mind about the two women in his life. I know how that must make you feel to hear it put like that, but that is what may be going on in his male mind. If you can “outshine” the OW long enough for it to dawn on his fogged up mind that you are the only jewel worth having, then you won’t be sorry for weathering the storm. As to how long you may have to do that may depend on how much strength you have in you. I do actually know of more than one case where that techniques has worked. One case was with a person who started here on the board and then asked for my help off the board b/c her H had found her posts. By then he had moved out and the A was going full force. But, she kept saying that she was going to continue to outshine the OW and low and behold, he came to his senses and he came back home to her and the kids. So, anything is possible. I don’t know that I could have endured what she did, but she had the right stuff and she won out.

So, if you can hold on for a while longer, why don’t you try? If it gets too much to endure, then we can talk some more about what to do. I never think a woman (or man) should ever become a doormat or do anything that makes them feel degraded or lose their self confidence. That is not outshining the OP. Always, expect your H to respect you. If he doesn’t, then demand it and if he still doesn’t, then I say it is time to leave him. I don’t go along for one minute with that stuff. Of course, I know him going to see OW is a large form of disrespect, but I mean in how he talks to you and treats you when he is with you.

I am so proud of how you’ve worked hard to lose that weight! I wished I could get some off of me. I know it would help my feelings a lot. I hope you will continue to work at looking great b/c it will boost your self confidence and make you have more spunk. I think guys like gals with some spice, sass, and spunk.....don’t you?

Talk to you later,
Sandi

[In Limbo]

Thanks Sandi. I did not confront him about tonight. I did suggest casually that maybe since it wasn't a class that I could go with him, just to see his reaction. I've never seen anyone change the subject so fast in my life and the flash of fear in his eyes almost made me giggle. He knows that I'm upset about his distance and blew it off, but thinks his secret about tonight is safe. I'm not sure I can hold out when he comes home tonight but will try. It makes me feel used for him to come home from dancing with her into my bed, even if dancing was all there was. While seeing OW is disrespectful, I find being lied to much more disrespectful and it makes me doubt everything about him and question everything. I'd rather him just be upfront. Why would he not just be upfront? Is it the guilt b/c he knows it's wrong? Is it just not wanting to hurt me? Is it wanting to keep things going until he decides? I just don't get it.
As for the lies, how do you live this way - not being able to trust anything someone says? Even if he were to decide to come back, how would I know he wasn't still playing me? Any insight into that? I guess part of the answer for now is to just try to not wonder, worry, care where he is or what he's doing with whom. After 21 years, that's SO hard to do.
I got on the treadmill this morning and have lost more than 30 lbs now. God has taken away my desire to comfort myself with food, which was my version of self-medication. That's been a blesssing. I still have a lot more to lose unfortunately but think by summer I can be where I want to be for ME.

Thanks Sandi!

[In Limbo]

It's amazing how you can blow it without even realizing what you've done. H asked my opinion on shirt and tie to wear tonight (what the heck?!?). Anyway, I started to take them into brighter light, then stopped and said "well, you'll be in the dark, so this light is ok to check it in." That set him off and he was so pissed he didn't even say goodbye when he left. It's so hard to know if what I said really was out of line or if it's just his own guilt getting to him. Either way, now I feel like tonight with OW will be a relief b/c it's so easy for them to be with OW with no responsibilities, etc. I want to confront him about all of his lies so much. Guess I'd better write it all down today and get it out before he comes home. How can I outshine when it seems everything I do is an irritant to him now? How on earth do people do this for YEARS?!?

[In Limbo]

This is the second time I've tried to post something and it's just disappeared. Hope it hasn't gone onto someone else's post.

Can someone give some insight into boundary setting with MLCer - how do you set enough boundaries to protect yourself without driving them further away?

So, tonight is the night H is out with OW (hasn't told me, but I know). I was a wreck this morning but then had a sort of scary but not life threatening medical issue today and that got me thinking that with or without H, life goes on and it's up to me what that life is going to be like. I know, DUH, what all the DBers have been saying. H7 had a ballgame tonight so we went and enjoyed that. I can't say I didn't think about H, but can say I didn't obsess about it, didn't cry, etc. I do not plan to ask any questions about it (which is killing me but will only start a fight about me "snooping" and violating his privacy). Tomorrow morning I will try my best "as if." And this crazy life goes on.....

[In Limbo]

Did well last night. Failed at "as if" this morning. He's leaving. Not sure how to continue. Finding more failures each time I discover more of his lies. Need some encouragement and guidance.

[In Limbo]

Let me clarify earlier post. Last night I did a great "as if" when H came home from event I strongly suspect with OW. This morning I just couldn't take it. I asked a couple of questions and suggested that he was hiding stuff. Got the normal anger about me "snooping" or "stalking" and he said he just wanted me to leave him alone. All the stuff DB tells you NOT to do for all the reasons he expressed. So now I sit here, knowing how much I screwed up and not knowing what to do now. I don't think I can keep living even part time with H when I can't trust him at all. I want to schedule time to talk with him to suggest he move out permanently and we separate finances. But is it pursuing to contact him and ask for that time?

[In Limbo]

I have continued to DB, but feel H slipping further away. Yesterdy he "worked all day" (can I believe that? can I believer he's ever where he says he is anymore?) and when he got home he was distant as usual. But he wants to watch a movie together, cuddle, etc. Knowing what I know about OW now, I'm feeling like cake crumbs. He has been seeing OW (EA) in person (movies, dancing, etc.) and continuing to communicate with her. I'm wondering if EA is headed to PA. I still want my M to work, but think I need to protect myself by asking him to leave our home. How does the WAS/MLC spouse ever reconnect to feelings for LBS when all of their energy is being poured into OW? I can't bring up the R, which is what I really want to do. How do I set boundaries without talking about R or OW when boundaries would involve both?
I know I need to detach and am not pretending that I have. I thought after the DUI and his comment about taking inventory of his life and the closeness I felt after that maybe we were headed toward reconciliation. But now I know he's just as obsessed with OW as he was before. I want to confront her, confront her spouse so he doesn't end up feeling fooling like me too. Guess that's never a good idea? I've not realy had anger in all of this but I feel it rising up today. He's back at work all day, so I have until tonight to figure out what to do and say. I hope someone has some advice. Please?