Am I stupid or do we have a chance?

[optimist]

Optomist,

Finally stopping by your place! Keep venting here, that is what it is for.

Thanks, Jackie, you are always welcome here. How was VA Beach this weekend? I will stop by yours later, when I have a bit more time.

AlmostGone gave me some insight this weekend that I had forgotten about. I was going on and on about how H said he tried and I thought that was crap. But, maybe in his own way he did try. It wasn't my way, I didn't think it was the right way, but he was trying and I didn't recognize or awknowledge that.

Are there any signs you can see where is trying to handle OW, getting her out of his life or influence? Possibly it isn't what you want or need, but some small things being done?

You are SO right. I do not know if he is doing something to get her out of our life because he does not mention her at all. I know nothing about what is going on in his office or whether he has even told her it is over. And that is part of the problem. I can deal with facts, even real bad ones: it is the unknown fears I handle poorly.

Two months ago, the last time I talked to her, she told me that he acted as if nothing had happened and had mentioned that we were getting divorced. The unspoken asumption was that he'd marry her once that happened. She also said that he had taken her to dinner and stayed at her home one evening watching TV (nothing physical). I asked him, nicely, and he denied. Unfortunately, based on past performance, I have to trust what she says more than what he says and she knew a whole lot about my past rantings and ravings. Since then I have not talked to her, except to say hi when I call him at the office. What is the point?

The saddest thing is that I had told him clearly that I would not oppose a D if that was what he wanted. And we had agreed on the terms of the D (I keep my stuff, he keeps his, we share legal custody of our daughter and I keep sole physical custody). Even proved I was serious: during the 6 months we were separated he saw our daughter with no restrictions. If he really wanted to marry the OW he could, in three or four months. He is the one that keeps begging me not to proceed, to hold off a bit longer.

Since he moved in with us Aug 17 he has definitely tried to improve our R, his way. He leaves his cell phone on most of the time so that I can call him when I want and calls me from work to say where he is going and what time he plans to be home. He spends much more time at home and has proposed things to do together (we took up kayaking, we went to dinner only us, that kind of thing). He even makes small casual gestures, like holding hands when we walk and reaching out to me in the sofa when we watch TV. And the physical aspect is great Nearly like 12 years ago.

But he does not talk about his feelings or our plans or that W. Actually one of the things he had complained about was that when I asked him if he was OK and he did not tell me I would not sit down with him and make him tell me. So I tried a couple of times, but he would get upset at me. I pointed nicely to him that he had asked me to ask but we did not get anywhere...

As I write I wonder, maybe I am being too impatient. I have been trying to get rid of her since 11/02 so it seems forever, but the actual affair only saw light 5/03: does that mean that I have to wait until Thanksgiving? I had given myself until Christmas, anyway

But on the other hand, in the last 5 years there were many times when things were 'better', when (I know now) they had broken up and he was happy with me. How can I trust that this is the 'once and forever'? As long as she is in the picture, I am threatened.

If you have the conversation you are talking about, can you get him to come up with solutions? Tell him what the problem is and ask how we can solve it and let him talk first. See what he can come up with, and even if it is different from what you want, really think about the things for a bit before you dismiss them or give your ideas.

I do not know whether to have it quite yet. I think you (and AlmostGone) are right, I may need to acknowledge his positive gestures first before getting into deeper waters. A bit of positive feedback before big talks. I need to be patient... I know that if I push too hard or too soon he will leave again. He nearly did last week... though he thought better about it at the last minute.