Stress, WAW and life in general II

[mindfull]

Hi AJ!

A BABY? Whoa!

Ok... I think you're doing terrific!

I agree, in that, she needs to know that if she leaves, you may not want her back, but have not totally closed the door to the idea. Also, once she starts trying to figure out how to handle things (financially) on her own, that may have a huge impact.

She doesn't really sound like she wants a separation from you (or your M) specifically. It sounds like she wants a separation from LIFE in general. She has a lot of classic MLC behaviors.

I think you're giving her enough rope... hopefully she won't hang herself. She has a husband who cares enough to fight for his M, a couple of kids who could, seriously, harbor some resentment towards her (lack of time, attention, etc...). She's a smart gal. Let's just hope not blind!

Good luck with it all, AJ.

[AJM]

It sounds like she wants a separation from LIFE in general

Thanks MB. I think you're right (in fact, she said it many times recently and is paying HYPER close attention to my words. She takes great offense if I don't sound like I want to be friends or don't want a relationship with her - it's all about her in her world.)

Interesting Update:
We spoke this weekend twice. On Saturday night she wanted to talk about relationship things. She was basically sharing her life with me. I listened attentively as she told me she was very tired and needed a break from her life (wow MB :). She said she thought we could always be friends. I didn't really say much other than let's take it a day at a time. She brought up the baby etc.

The next day she was all over me to talk about the separation. She changed on the finances and wants to have a sep account for her school and living expenses. She will give back the credit cards and ATM card. Basically, she's leaving, taking a few pieces of furniture and some plates/spoons, etc. and the car.

One of her friends is a lawyer. She started to tell me about a "clause" she added and I ended the conversation. I told her right then and there that if she brings a lawyer into the conversation, ANY lawyer, that I will feel compelled to do the same.

We also agreed that we are both to remain faithful to each other during this. This is not about dating or that type of thing. This is about trying to figure out our marriage and our relationship.

When I was sharing some of my feelings with her, she told me to not lecture her. See below for my thoughts on that.

We went with a couple of friends to watch the hockey game last night. On the way down, she told me about her friend and how he got the dear john letter over the weekend. He's the lawyer. The running buddy. He's the one that told me that my wife reminds him so much of his own wife prior to the craziness. My wife told me several things I found interesting: She is having a really hard time taking on his issues. That's new. She did talk to him for 20 minutes and delayed talking to me about our relationship to do it. But she is trying to move away from him and was telling me that she thinks he lectures and repeats himself. She takes offense at the repeating. See my thoughts below on that. He called and told her that he came by the house for some things and found his wife in the hottub drinking champagne and listening to music. He was incensed. He's trying to use my wife as a crutch. He has for quite a while and she let him. She tries to help a lot of people but cannot help herself it seems. See below for my thoughts
When she mentioned that she thought his wife needed meds, I did point out that it is not the whole story. I know the two of them. I feel badly because I think that what has really happened is that it's him. She has been sad because of him and has finally given up waiting for him. They are both good people but that saddens me to see. There's a lot more of that, but it's not relevant.

During the conversation about the sep, wife also told me about the conversation we had the night before. She got a funny look on her face and was kind of awed that she feels good when she shares deep and intimate things with me.

One of the things that has fascinated me about my wife is how impatient she has gotten with my son. She says he is just like me and repeats himself (lectures) to her. Hmm... This morning I think I figured out something. I think what I'm seeing is something that I have put up with for so many years and although I've never liked it, I've accepted it. I think that is something I really don't want to accept in the future. That is that my wife is a horrible listener. She hears everything. She is a horrible listener. She doesn't give people the feeling that they have been heard. She can. She does not very often and then gets frustrated when people say things again. She truly gets offended by it as if they are insulting her by not thinking that she remembers or heard. Very one-sided. I realized this morning that is what I am really missing. Her listening. She hasn't in sooooooo long. My father thinks I may be masochistic. I'm not. He says that because I have mentioned that I really have liked the open communication. I realize now that's because I've missed it so much.
Something that has to happen for us is that we learn to have that intimate conversation. It's been more than a year since we've had it. Long before the nephew.

I honestly think that we have a chance. I think that this is her way of changing from what she was to what she is becoming. She has so much on her plate that I think she has not been able to process it and thinks that by leaving the house (i.e. life in general) that she'll be able to process it. I know that it won't be that easy but it's what she's thinking regarding that that is important for her.

She plans move out just ahead of Mother's day. This was interesting to me, but she's in a hurry and has too many other things going on that would prevent her from getting out after that. Can't before because of other commitments. The kids won't be happy I'm sure.

Still much to do, but I'm shifting into the mode of figuring out what I want. I'm not going to pay much attention to what she wants once she leaves. I can't. She has to determine that and then communicate it. I do know that I need someone that makes me feel needed in some way and somebody that makes me feel like she listens. Better listening skills are going to be important I think.

Time to work on me a lot more. I'll infrequently be back.

AJ

[mindfull]

AJ -

Has your W committed to an apartment? I think you are doing so well with this. Does she get a break from school now? And, I forget, does she work AND go to school?

[AJM]

Thanks MB. No, she has not yet committed to an apt, but it's pretty much a done deal. I believe she'll do it. I think she needs to for her own sanity. I'm at a place where I need her to go. I'm sorry it's right before mother's day, but that's her choice and not mine.

I'm sorry my kids will likely hate her and need years of therapy to get past this. That's again her choice and their choices how they handle it. I'll do my best to protect them, but I realize there is only so much I can do and that they are old enough to make their own choices as well. It's going to take a long time for me to get over this pain she is causing I'm sure. I'll work through that as it comes.

She does not work. She only goes to school. Funny conversation the other night. She brought up how she thinks this is easier for men. Their wives make their lunches and they only have to go to school. No mommy guilt. I laughed pretty hard at that. She got upset and wanted it to be true because her guy friends said it was so. I said it wasn't and that they are not telling the truth. She thought they were and I said, no, they are not telling themselves the truth. I had to laugh because she so very much wanted me to let her be independent when I was doing that stuff for her. Ironic to me that she said that.

She has been asking questions to help her with her guilt. She asks them in such a way that she gets particular answers.

But that's all for her to deal with. I have to focus on the kids and their well-being now. She'll have to deal with her own issues and self. I can't be responsible for her mental well-being at the cost of my kids. I won't do it any longer at my expense. Actually, I've spent the last week or so not doing that.

She's been very nervous about my feelings. She tried to say that she thinks we'll always be friends. I said we should take it one day at a time, but in fairness, I was answering the previous question as well. She took offense at that. Got nervous about it. She fishes to see if I care. If I still love her. I see a lot of little changes in her such as acting more like a parent and more like an adult. She's come a long way in her journey.

But she's leaving. It's time for me to take more of my part in the journey and figure out what it is I want from myself. From my partner in life. From my family in general. And it's time I start working towards getting what I want out of life. If she can catch up, so be it. If not, then I'll miss her about as much as I do now I think.

It hurts, but I realize it is not in my control. I am. My kids need me. My wife may also, but she needs herself more. She needs to figure out what it is she wants and wants to do to get it. I see her with new running friends. She's dropping the old friends slowly as they disintegrate. They are sucking the life out of her and I think she's coming to terms with that and starting to make changes.

I think she's going to be fine at some point. She may not be with me, but she is going to be fine. So will I. And I will have a clear conscience and two wonderful kids. Oh, and two dogs.

Fitting into my life is going to be up to her from this point forward. She'll have to earn it though. I have too much self-respect to do otherwise.

AJ

[AJM]

Quick update:
Didn't really talk to WAS last night. She and the kids went to the beach. She txt'd me in the afternoon to let me know they made it and that they had been enjoying the sun and surf, was I ok? Weird. Why wouldn't I be. I let her know that was cool, that I was headed out with a friend to get dinner and drinks and I'd talk later. I ended up calling and she couldn't get off the phone fast enough. I spoke to the kids - they seem to be having a good time. I'm happy for them.

I woke up today angry. It is not lost on me that one night my WAS was talking about wanting a baby because, "..she feels she has different things to give." and the next she is contemplating telling her own kids that she is leaving just before mother's day.

I'm working through it. I know this is not her rational normal self. It's cold though. Really cold and self-centered.

I'm thinking about it because I have to figure out how to act around the children when she tells them. I don't want them to think this is my idea. But I can't just shoot her in the back either if there would ever be a chance for the marriage.

What to do, what to do?

I also had to give it more thought about the agreement she drafted. She wanted to put the no abandonment clause in there because a lawyer friend suggested it. I told her no lawyers. I'm thinking I'll stick to that in a very firm and rigid way - if she tries to put that in, I'll remind her that there should be no lawyers and that she needs to put some skin in the game.

Thoughts?

AJ

[mindfull]

AJ -

Do the kids have ANY idea anything is wrong? I would think so, since they are 13 and 11, and she sleeps separate... but who knows?

And, if she doesn't work, does she expect you to fund her new apartment and lifestyle? I remember reading that you had discussed finances, but I can't go back w/out erasing what I've typed!

I'm glad she's nervous about your feelings. She should be. She should be more nervous about her kids feelings. They have absolutely no say in this... at least you have had a voice (kind of?) until now... She's just going to to slap them with a bomb, and require (her version) acceptance.

When you (both) tell them, I don't see anything wrong with letting them know that you do NOT want this, and you made a commitment to their mom, and intend to honor it. You love her, and want her to be happy, and feel like this is something you have to support, as you don't want a miserable wife. I think it would also be a good idea to come up with an agreed upon time frame of separation. They need to know how long this will go on. I really wish she would wait until school's out for summer.

I agree with your "no lawyers" requirement. Screw the no abandonment clause. She IS abandoning you and her kids!

[AJM]

Thanks MB. Yeah, the kids have an idea. They know there are problems. My son told her the other day he doesn't want his parents to get divorced. I don't think he meant that he wants us to get separated though.

Like I mentioned before - this is not a case of she just decided to go away. Have a second life. This is more about her not coping with stress and not being able to understand how to not be selfish. I am not making excuses. She has made her own choices. She will have to live with them as I will have to live with mine. Sadly the children will have to live with the choices as well. I can't stop that however.

The kids are on year round schedule. Besides, you can tell this isn't about them, right? This is about herself. She has wanted to leave since December. Just for different reasons at the time. Now she seems to think (says) that she thinks that there may be a chance. That we are separating to work on us. She knows that it's mostly her that needs work. That's really a big plus in some ways.

I'm just close to being done. My feelings are mostly gone. Or at least I really can't feel much of them. And she is NOT the kind of person I would choose to date if I met her on the street. She's selfish. Self-centered.

I do notice that in the sep agreement she wrote up she will actually spend more time with the kids and myself. She is not expecting me to pay for her lifestyle. In fact, she came around and is going to give me the credit cards, atm cards, etc and the house keys. She will keep driving the car, even though I will keep paying on it. I'm not changing my bills basically.

That part of this is fine. She needs space. Ok. Guess what? SO DO I. I need some time away from this. I need some time to figure out what it is I really want.

I went out to lunch today. Ran some errands. Stopped at a local pub for lunch. Talked to a lovely young lady (hi Angela) and she told me her story. Basically, she lost a lot a few years ago. She's a breast cancer survivor. At 31 she was diagnosed. Single. Pretty. Was going to get breast augmentation when they found it. She lost her money, was fired from her job (it was a mortgage job) that they had just moved her to a new city to perform, and is one of the nicest people I've met recently. What struck me is how she was headed in one direction when suddenly life threw her a curve. She has my admiration. She made me think about how short life really is. How I may not want my wife to come back. To be honest, I'm not really sure of anything any more.

Just the same, I'm working on my commitment to stay married. I just don't feel a lot of anything about it. That worries me.

AJ

[Kalni]

Hi Aj,
thanks for coming by. I am not sure you or anybody else should follow my story at this point but thanks for your kind words.

Last night I read a book, The Lact Lecture, google it. For inspiration...
Good luck
K

[AJM]

Hi K. I do read your story. I do take inspiration from it. I do understand far better than I ever wanted to.
I read that book. It is inspirational. I am touched by the idea that life is short. Live it to the fullest every day.

I would still like that to be with my wife. My soulmate. I understand that may not be possible but I intend to live my life to the fullest regardless of her choices.

I am rooting for you. I think you have found the happiness you wanted. You found you. If your husband wants back or if you want him back, is a very different part of your life right now. Love is a choice. That I know. Doesn't mean it is an easy one.

AJ

[Kalni]

Well, I am not sure anymore. I am very hesitant to post to newcomers because of that...
K