True Love or True Fog? Changing Forums

[Silver Fox]

You would think that the kids in Alaska would have more respect for the wildlife there.

[Flicka]

No, they are struggling against their bad families. That school is one of the best.

I feel like throwing rocks every day.

[JayMan]

Silver,
Here's what it boils down to for me.

I love my wife more than anything. I would walk away from everyone of my material possessions for her, and never look back, and never regret it - if it would make my family whole, and make my 6 and 8 year old smile again.

I have told Pearl, and I mean it from the bottom of my heart that I would crawl through broken glass for her.

But, here's the thing. I believe in one marriage. I gave my wife my vows, and I will stand by them until I die as I promised her and God. I'm not looking for a quick out so I can go pick up some other honey.

But when she started an affair, she treated me to the most utter disrespect possible, not to mention my children. She chose to lose 50% of her time with them, and then chose to spend even more time with some random man. She chose not to go to marriage counseling, chose not to make any efforts.

I filed for the dissolution, and I despise divorce.

I say all that to say this. My wife needs to be a woman. She needs to suck it up, and be a mom, and a wife, and a woman, and do right by her husband and her children, because we deserve better. I have read your aching posts on here, and seen your hurt.

And, when I hear you hanging on, desperately hoping for H to hit bottom or for Catlady to fizzle out - do you hear yourself? You are hoping for the scuzzy leftovers, and that when all else falls apart for H, he'll come back and pick you over the crap in his life. Are you OK with that?

Are you OK with being his last resort when everything else in his life sucks? I'm not!

Again, I will not date/remarry/etc - I am 31, and will be single for the next 60-odd years, and it was a choice I made when I said my vows to W. But the moral example I will be to my children, the dignity that I hold for myself, and the respect and treatment that I require from others makes me who I am.

Also, I repeat, I would literally walk out my front door, get in the car with W and the kids, and never give a second thought if I knew for sure it would bring my family back.

BUT, I am worth so much more than the person W turns to when the rest of her life has turned to crap.

I'm not saying to run off to divorce - that's a choice that only you can make, and you need to be OK with it, and what we think doesn't matter. I wasn't OK filing dissolution for a long long time, but I am now. But your H needs to come to YOU. He needs to clearly and unequivocally admit his mistakes and his wrongs, and get help for them, and be prepared to do whatever it takes to make it right, and you need to expect that.

You can and should forgive him in sincerity if he is legitimate, but I stand by my earlier statements.

[Flicka]

Silver Fox, please excuse me for referencing that moose abuse incident... Sorry.

[AliSuddenly]

Hey Silver...

Someone posted to me early on which REALLY helped and I was trying to pass that on to you.. but perhaps I can add some more.

Someone said to me, that men in MLC, taht have A's are not the usual WAS, or just had an A and left.. theres something else going on. And what they need from us, as the LBS is.. consistency and reassurance. Be their FRIEND.. no matter what, no reproachment, no anger, no resentment.. also as they need these things, it is counterproductive to NOT pursue or initiate contact for long periods of time. You should ALWAYS accept contact with them (be their loving, consistent forgiving friend) and if you dont hear from them for long stretches, then make a friendly, no expectations contact, to check in with them. She (Appleroad I think it was) explained this to me, like the MLCer is a special case and needs a bit more gentle handling.

I saw you not doing that.. yes, the LRT is good for you and gave you strength and equilibrium.. but how has that helped you reconcile with your H ? I can see why there was a need for it at one point, as after the bomb and the pleading etc, you had little choice but to pull back.

And I am sorry he is now pushing for D.. but it may be because he sees no other way out, and your sort of coldness and disapproval (forgive me) toward him is palpable.. in his crisis and emotional state, he proabbly just cant handle it and it makes him want to run faster and harder away. Can you see that?

I know you have struggled with being his friend whilst ow is in tow.. but I dont know of any sitches really (apart from puppydog) where the LBS has been able to refuse to see the WAS until OW is off the scene and THAT makes the WAS then miss them, finish with ow and come back.

The WAS has to be able to compare you, as the loving, patient, calm, non-pressurising W, with the often chaotic, bad choice of OW. How is he supposed to see you as the greener grass if he doesnt get to see you? How are you supposed to put doubt in his mind and make him question his R with the OW (please stop calling her catbitch by the way!! its not good to blame her, this is YOUR H's doing, not hers)...if you dont show him what he is missing? Lastly.. the biggest tenement of DB is.. be the greener grass, become again.. the woman he first fell in love with.

Are you doing that? What 180s have you done? What interesting and inticing things do you chat to him about about your life when you see him? Do you chat to him at all? Jody my DB coach said, whatever you do, DO NOT present to him a picture of a devastated human being.. that they have ruined your life.. yuo dont have to move on, but act as if you are moving forwards and having fun and show them what they missed, or loved about you in the early days.

if you have followed my sitch for some time, you will see that I have maintained a friendship with my ex, EVENTHOUGH he has been seeing ow for 7 months (dont know if he still is, as he never mentions her and nor do I).. and taken every opportunity he has offered me to see him and make a good impression.. and its working. He told his friends - I am again, the girl he fell in love with (back in 1996). I have had to be the bigger person, absolutely.. and in terms of the poster above.. forget self esteem etc.. this is a DB website.. we ARE putting up with the crap because we value our spouses and have decided we want them back. So thats a given. What we are here to do is help each other with that aim.. so I say, swallow your pride, as I have had to continually.. ignore OW, stop calling her names, focus on you and being the greener grass.

You need to take those opportunities to DB.. when he comes to mow the grass, maybe be in, looking hot, chat to him a bit then say you have to be somewhere.. how about leave him a note and a favourite snack of his on the table to say thanks for doing the grass, if you cant be in? How about buy him something for the fishtank and leave it there with a note, next time he comes to clean it? Oh and Jody told me that when they do want to meet to discuss thinks, DONT do that at the house.. the house is what she calls "the scene of the crime" and makes the WAS remember all the bad things that they are running from (you and the guilt of all that etc).. meet away from teh house, somewhere with a good, upbeat energy. Have a drink, smile, show interest in them etc, then be the frist to leave.

I dont know if its too late, but.. if you start now, why not? What have you got to lose Silver? You are heading for D anyway right now. Good luck...

Al x

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I hope that the image haunts those children for a long time, and that it shapes them to become better people. Let something good come from something horrible.

What Jon said is accurate, many of those things need to happen, do not take him back because he ran out of options, do not take him back without boundaries...but please please understand...in MLC this more than likely will not happen for a long time. If it even happens at all.

In MLC you stack the deck in your favor to stand as long as you can. You protect yourself from going crazy, you basically store up time and patience to weather the spouse's MLC as long as you can.

Ali is hitting the nail on the head about alot of things in my opinion about your sitch.

Jon, Flicka, I would like to sincerely apologies for my words yesterday. Friends are great to have in this.
MLC is a little bit different in the mentality to make it, we almost have to become masocistic to make it, as seen from those otuside of it. But the trick is to remember this is our choice, ours, no one elses, and in that choice, is our control.

[Silver Fox]

Thank you everyone for posting. Good grief, have I done it all wrong and now it's too late? Or maybe I got over here to MLC just in time?

I'm taking a 2 hour road trip tomorrow so lots of time to think about it all. Too tired and overwhelmed to write tonight.

[AliSuddenly]

Silver.. I knew you would think that! Please dont.. we all do 'all the wrong things' when we get hit with the bomb and then, after, you were only trying to protect yourself. And also, you cant control what happens. I sometimes wonder if the nuances of teh communications I have had with my ex have made any difference at all over the past 18 mohths.. he probably would have got to where he is at now in any case. So, dont beat yourself up !!! But yes, maybe change tack now and try that.

Som along the same lines I was trying to explain, here is an excellent post from butterflyMom.. she won her H back and just posted in teh MLC forum. Its just luck, which come back, no way of knowing! But I love her explanation here about showing them compassion, kindness and continued contact and also the analogy about the rocks in the river, it exactly sums up what I was trying to say to you...

"I don’t know about waiting out the “beginning of the MLCer acting out” (if I gathered you right on that one, Jack). I didn’t wait. MLCer’s are hurting too. That is WHY they are acting out. Think about your spouse and how he was before and how much in love you guys were and how you never thought he’d do anything to hurt you (I’ve not read your posts, but that pretty much seems to be the norm around here). Why is he acting this way now? Did he just get mean all of a sudden? Most likely not. Most likely there was something going on in your marriage that he got tired of dealing with. This may have been something that you didn’t really think was all that bad. Something that you may not have even been aware was important to him, but it was important and now he’s come to the end of his rope. He has found someone that is meeting that need (maybe – I don’t know if your spouse is having an affair or not)and has decided to finally be happy. He was most likely hurting over something for many many years and now that he’s made the break he’s got to prove to himself and to everyone else that there is no turning back – so he acts out. He’s hurting – so someone else needs to hurt too – so he acts out. If you can look at your spouse as someone who has been hurt deeply and is now acting out on that hurt it is easier to be nice to them. Easier to not take their actions so personally. Easier to realize that it may take some time to undo the years and years of build-up to this situation. I got shot down, ignored, he was mean to me, etc and that is where the whole idea of “detachment” comes into play. Detachment isn’t about detaching yourself physically or ending contact with your wayward spouse, it is about protecting your emotions so that their antics don’t keep bringing you down. It gets hard to keep acting “as if” (to use a DB term) when your spouse is not receptive to any of your niceness, but as I read somewhere earlier it’s like rocks in a river. You are standing on the edge of a river that you need to cross so you begin throwing rocks into the river one at a time to make a bridge. At first the rocks just sink to the bottom and you don’t appear to be making any progress, but you just keep throwing rocks. Eventually a rock with hit and a small piece will stick out of the surface of the water. You keep throwing until many rocks are sticking out and you can walk across the river. The rocks represent little kindnesses that we do for our spouses. At first, they don’t appear to really be making a difference, but just know that somewhere under the surface they are slowly building and it will be a while before you can see any progress. Some of us have bigger and deeper “rivers” to cross than others and chances are if you are dealing with the Mississippi River or something equally as large you might get tired and give up before you see any progress. ;. Most likely it is going to take much longer than it ever does in Hollywood!

Sometimes your nice acts DON’T lead to a reconciliation. Sometimes they may only lead to a better relationship with your spouse in the future"

...so how about next time he comes over to mow the grass, leave him a brief thankyou note and his favourite snack, or something??

I have done things for my ex, little things that are linked to my 180's.. like I posted him some recordings of new music I knew he would like. Because when we first met and were friends, music was veyr important to us, but I got lazy and complacent down the years and even complained at times if he wanted the stereo on. So.. 180's. What would be a 180 for you, to get his attention? And you are lucky Silver in that yuo do still have opportunities to do that, as he wants to speak to you and he still comes by the house regularly.

[smartcookie]

Hi Sweets ! Thanks for checking on me. Sorry to hear that he's pushing for a new fresh start. Ugh !

Hugs to you.

How was your drive ?

[Silver Fox]

Hello all,

Thank you Ali for taking the time and effort to post. I really am taking your advice to heart and I also read butterflymom's thread the other night.

Smartcookie! I'll catch up with you too.

So, got a text from H today - "I'm going to try and cut the tree this afternoon. Do you want me to get something to eat?"
I replied - sure. When I arrived he was cooking dinner. For a brief moment it was like old times - H in kitchen, me taking care of the dogs, checking the mail, watching the news. It didn't last long as he told me he had written out a proposal and would email it to me. I was pleasant and non-emotional (I'm SO proud of this - it took me a long time to get my emotions in check). He asked if I'd had any more thoughts about what I wanted and I had to remind him that my students are performing next week. He knows that takes all my time and energy, so he didn't push it and said it could wait til after that (gee, thanks).

He's busy with end of semester work too so he left right after eating. He did manage to add "Well, we need to decide something soon as I have limited time". Translation - he wants the D as soon as possible, at the latest by August so he can move. Some of you remember that his current job is ending and he's only looking for work in OW's town 200 miles away.

He wished me good luck on my show. This still stings alot because for the past 14 years he has always helped with it and taken lots of photographs. I miss this terribly. But I thanked him and thanked him for dinner and he went on his merry way back to OW's for the weekend and said "See you next Wednesday!" Um, ok.