The adventure continues--part 3

[AFWAW]

Wow, the wife just called to say that she had a good time and before you know it we were in a relationship talk. I told her I needed a decision soon. She said do I have to make it tonight? I said no. She said if I have to make it tonight then the answer is no, I'm not coming back. I said I'm asking for a decision tonight. She said I know it's not fair but I don't want a divorce right now and I don't want to come back right now. She said you have all the reason in the world to go file so why don't you? I said that's not what I want.

It went on and on and on with the same old tired crap about enjoying being alone(which she wasn't) and then she said I don't know that I won't do it again. I said well that won't work. She said I know.

She said, you know maybe we can learn something from this and maybe be friends after this is over. I said if this doesn't work out, I can't be your friend, I'm sorry. She said, why not? I said I love you too much and it would hurt me too much to have to listen to you and see you and not be able to hold you and love you. She said you're going to be cruel if this doesn't work out aren't you. I said I didn't know but I cannot be your friend if you choose this route.

She asked about where our daughter would live. I said she's already told me that she wants to live with me. She said really. I said yes. Then she proceeded to tell me that the reason she left the other day was because of her daughter's reaction. I said she is a teenager and she didn't react the way you wanted so you're not coming home because of that? She said that's why I left.

She said I want you to prepare for the fact that I'm not coming back. I said ok. I said you know you're going to wake up one day and regret this. She said are you threatening me? I said no, but I want you to remember me saying this--you will totally regret this one day and you won't be able to undo it. I have been more than generous. I have given you my heart yet again and you are stomping on it again. She said I know, I just can't decide. I don't want a divorce and I don't want to come home. She said even if I wanted to file right now I can't afford to do so. I said what do you want me to say? She said it's my fault I know--I was stupid enough to take all the bills(yes you were and youre not getting out of them)because I felt guilty(and you should have, you slept with 4 men and had an EA with a married man while I was deployed to Iraq, so if you don't come home I hope you feel guilty every day for the rest of your life) and I have to save up for a divorce if I wanted one(nope I don't feel sorry for her that she has no money).

So, I said, you don't want a divorce but you don't want to come home, would you agree to marriage counseling while seperated? She said, I would but I can't talk in front of you. Ok, would you go to individual counseling at least and then think about MC? She said ok, send me an email with the info and I'll call and set it up. Great I said, that's a good start for now. She said I don't think we should talk to each other for a while. Ok, I said, are you going to call OM? She said no, I don't know.

OK, I think we're pretty much done. I'm still going to wait to see what happens with the promotion and assignment sitch but unless someone sees something I'm missing I think it's pretty much over and done. I can't take anymore. I'm going to make her file though--she deserves to pay for it IMO.

Thoughts????

Time to totally go dark. I'll probably be better off anyway. At this point, I'm mentally exhausted and it's absolutely not fair what she is doing to our family unit. She's selfish and a lier and a heartbreaker and not trustworthy and not rational and I absoulutely don't like her right now. This just totally sucks.

[hooper1668]

Tell your 1st Sgt! No contact order for the Lt Col will give her time to remember her daughter and her husband. Do it now before it is too late...your marriage will survive her anger...not the affair.
Do not tell her just do it...you have already let this go on too long.
You are correct...go dark.
For her to blame it on your daughter is not right
Go visit your family...take care

[BobbiJo]

I agree with Hooper. She is living in fantasy land and needs a real wake-up call. She point-blank said she didn't want to come home and if pressed to make a decision she would not come home...when my H couldn't "talk in front of me" at MC, it was b/c he was still with ow but trying to hide it from me...

You have to decide what to do but it seems it is time for some type of action on your part. She is not getting what is at stake here, she thinks she has all the time in the world to think about it because she knows you said you wouldn't push her with a timeline...

[hooper1668]

AFWAW.
Please remember you are the one "in the right"; you are in a very unique position because she is active duty enlisted having, as a minimum, an inappropriate affair with an officer (if you could get proof...he would be in serious trouble). Use your toolbox. She is not rational right now...believe nothing, I mean nothing she tells you. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. I had an old crusty CMSgt years ago...his leadership style was harsh. His rule was if you are bringing this "stuff" into work they have lost it already. His reasoning behind this was much like an alcoholic skipping work...the work is what gives them the money to keep buying the alcohol. She is already there...she is jeopardizing all or a portion of her retirement check by having the affair...this will at some point take food out of her daughters mouth, clothes off her back, etc...The money she is throwing away right now should be going in a college fund. I am not trying to scare you but please stop listening to her...tell your shirt and commander in the morning. Go workout somewhere else, foget the base gym, go run! Did you stop the drinking? Now is not the time for you to be drunk. You have custody of your daughter...she doesn't need to see her dad passed out or sluring his words. Stay strong, get in your lane. Forget about her for now and let the system work the problem. If everything goes to "xxxx" you will have evidence for custody, support, and possibly protect your retirement check, which will be much more than hers if you make SMSgt and she ends up as a TSgt/SSgt...Although she doesn't deserve whatever stripe she has nod should the Lt Col be running around as a commander of anyone.

Take care, stay focused on what is best for your daughter. For now you are all that she has and it will get worse before it gets better. Don't forget church for both of you.

I know this is a jumble...I am so upset to see a SNCO, Iraq Vet, Bronze Star nominee, deserving SMSgt (select) go through this crap... Has she never deployed? Does she not know what you had to do?
Take care and go see your 1st Sgt

[AFWAW]

hooper,
I know I'm right. I just wish it made me feel better at this point. It doesn't. I do have her admission that she's had an affair and probably enough details to find out who the LtCol is.

At this point, I'm torn on what to do as far as reporting or not reporting her. I mean I feel sorry for her and I know I shouldn't. I hope she goes to counseling. I'm going to stop worrying about her for right now. I asked her if she was gonna contact OM again and she said she didn't know. I said well, that's not good. She said even if we got back together then I can't guarantee I wouldn't do this again. She said you'll find someone else. I told her I didn't want to have this conversation with her.

She said she wanted to have her cake and eat it too and she's not going to with me. I have to think about this for a few days. I haven't had a drink this week. I'm not going to drink because of things that happen to me anymore. I'll drink because I want to.

I just can't believe that I threw my heart out there again and she has rejected me and her family yet again.

[gucci loafer]

I told her I needed a decision soon. She said do I have to make it tonight? I said no. She said if I have to make it tonight then the answer is no, I'm not coming back. I said I'm asking for a decision tonight.

PRESSURE PRESSURE PRESSURE. Pressure does not work. NEVER chase a woman that is acting unsure. NEVER.

Have you ever been out shopping for something like a tv or car and been undecided? How would you react if the salesman told you they needed a decision now? What if you said no to them and they came back with "I am asking for a decision now?"

The normal reaction is to think or say.. "quit pressuring me and if you have to know now, then my answer is no." That is why pressuring does NOT work. It immediately causes the other person to get their guard up and push back against the pressure. Why would you continue to do things that don't work?

She said, you know maybe we can learn something from this and maybe be friends after this is over. I said if this doesn't work out, I can't be your friend, I'm sorry. She said, why not? I said I love you too much and it would hurt me too much to have to listen to you and see you and not be able to hold you and love you. She said you're going to be cruel if this doesn't work out aren't you. I said I didn't know but I cannot be your friend if you choose this route.

Wrong response again. "Give me what I want, give me what I want, and if you don't then I won't play." It is still pressure and pursuit. Women are NOT attracted and can't get feelings for weak men and men who say things like "it will hurt too much if I don't get what I want." You need to show her and tell her that you value yourself much more than that. The attitude should be "I will be perfectly fine without you and as a matter of fact, maybe this is for the best. Maybe we ARE better as friends. (just agree with her stance on this so that the pressure is off. You don't have to be her friend if you divorce, but you don't tell her that.)


This takes the pressure OFF. You HAVE to take the pressure off. The only way to do it is to lighten up and back off on trying to pressure her to come back home, drop the other man, go to counseling, get her feelings back and yada yada yada. This doesn't mean that you are going to be her best and only friend. It only means you let her think that being friends will be fine with you. You are showing her that you don't value yourself enough to show her what a strong man does when confronted with diffculties in life. You will gain much more progress when you agree with her that she doesn't deserve you. You are basically telling her with your actions and pursuing that "you can walk all over me and use me any way you want and I will continue to take it and tell you how much it hurts and hope you will feel sorry for me and come back because of my superb verbal skills of telling you that I won't be strong today, but by God I will maybe tomorrow or the next day.


I know you don't want to hear this, but she feels she is in love with the OM. She is waiting to see how that plays out. She is waiting for him as you are for her. You want her to stop what she feels while you are doing the very same thing. You want her to let go of him and you can't let go of her. It all has to do with feelings. She is following her feelings as are you. Women tend to follow their feelings. To get her to come back you have to help her get her feelings to change.

The question is.. How do I do that?

Right now she is thinking.. "I don't know what I want and he keeps pressuring me and I can't make up my mind. I keep thinking of OM and how it can work out with him. AFWAW will be there for me, so THAT isn't an issue.

NOW.. If you let her start to WONDER (that is done by mystery and holding your feelings and cards close)...

When she starts to wonder, then her thought process begins to change. Slowly as you convince her that you are not sure anymore and that you have possibly given up and MAYBE just MAYBE don't even want her back is when she will start to ask herself the right questions....

"Did I make a mistake? Is it too late? He did wait a long time for me and I treated him like crap, but is this what I want?

Now if you were shopping for that tv or car and the salesman had two other people also interested in the same product and he only had one tv or car of that product left and couldn't get another one... THEN he would not need to pressure you to buy it. First come, first serve. This is the last one at this price and a they have been selling like hotcakes. If you have any more questions, feel free to let me know.. AND then he walks away and starts talking to another customer that is also looking at the same product....

Most people would then be thinking... "Do I want to miss out on this deal... What if that other customer buys it and I was here first? and yada yada..

All because of no pressure from the salesman and the knowledge that he has a product that has another buyer in the wings. Both buyers suddenly are more interested in not losing out on something that could be gone if they don't act....

Change your game plan. There is nothing wrong with you. Please get your chin up and show her STRENGTH. Emotional strength. Women like men with emotional strength. They pity men who show how hurt they are when rejected. Pity does not get you love.

She is right in that you don't deserve her at the moment. Your actions shouldd show her that you agree with that too. You will surprise yourself on how much better you will feel when you take charge here. Don't be mean. Don't be punitive. Just let her SEE that you have had an awakening. Let her feel that awakening. NO more telling her how she is running out of time. No more telling her how you can't possibly face life and can't be her friend if you can't have her to hold and love. That is weak. Don't tell a woman those types of things.

"I can handle whatever life throws at me" is the attitude. I am a big boy. I have value and I will NOT tolerate or be with a woman who says she can't make up her mind about me. I am heading in another direction and have had an awakening. I deserve better and I WILL DO AND GET BETTER.

Then leave her alone and let her come to you. When she calls be distant, but middle of the road. Cut her off quickly after a few words of small talk.. "Hey, I was just walking out the door or hey, I am right in the middle of something and have to go"...

Let her WONDER... Create some mystery to get her thought process to change from is this what I want to "have I gone too far..

round and round goes her thoughts. The best way to get her thoughts in your favor is to seem to have given up and moved on so that she has to start chasing and pursuing you for feedback and validation that you will still be there....... You have to pass every test. Your mistake has been that when she chases you even a tiny bit, you grab her and smother her. She then knows you will still be there and quickly goes back to thinking about the OM and knows she can wait it out. She can chase and pursue him knowing you are in the wings.

She has a pretty good deal going. You will take her back at a minutes notice and she knows it. Your words don't convince her that you won't be there. Your words only mean pressure to her right now.

[LG nm12]

AF,

Personally, I think I would have a really hard time *pretending* to drop the rope and be on my merry way. I would have to literally reach my end in order to behave in a way that shows that I'm done. Not sure if you have that trait as well.

So... When are you going to reach your end? She's giving you scraps. She's showing you that you are her second or third or even fourth or fifth choice.

Can you envision your life as a single dad, living with your daughter, healing from this mess, and eventually meeting a beautiful, loving woman who is WORTHY of being your wife and a role model for your daughter? If you cannot visualize it, why not? Do you think that you are unlovable? Do you think that there isn't someone out there that would choose to bring you sunshine?

I'm not saying that you should stop fighting for what you want. But, if you can envision an alternate storyline for your life that doesn't hinge on your W coming back, it might inspire strength to drop the rope *for real*.

Best,
Lucky

[AFWAW]

gucci loafer,

You are ABSOLUTELY correct. I did pressure. I don't know why I didn't see it. I think it's because I'm holding on too tight as you indicated.

I said I'm asking for a decision tonight.

I read this again and realized that I ommitted a word. I told her that I'm NOT asking for a decision tonight. The rest was pressure though. You are correct.

I know you don't want to hear this, but she feels she is in love with the OM.

Yeah, I know, I'm realizing that and trying to come to terms with it.

The best way to get her thoughts in your favor is to seem to have given up and moved on so that she has to start chasing and pursuing you for feedback and validation that you will still be there

Ok, this is pretty much true anyway. At this point, I don't see much hope anyway so I am/have pretty much given up hope. I'll be putting away all pictures of her this weekend, putting all the stuff I don't want in boxes and acting as if the house is mine forever in the event she comes over. And I'm not doing it for her, I'm doing it for me.

Thanks very much for the input. Your words have made an impression and sadly I realize that I may have deeper issues where I fear that I may not be able to find someone else? I don't know.

[AFWAW]

Personally, I think I would have a really hard time *pretending* to drop the rope and be on my merry way. I would have to literally reach my end in order to behave in a way that shows that I'm done. Not sure if you have that trait as well.

You're right. I don't think most people do and I think you have me pegged, it's gonna be difficult.

Can you envision your life as a single dad, living with your daughter, healing from this mess, and eventually meeting a beautiful, loving woman who is WORTHY of being your wife and a role model for your daughter?

Not at this point, to be perfectly honest.

If you cannot visualize it, why not? Do you think that you are unlovable? Do you think that there isn't someone out there that would choose to bring you sunshine?

I'm not sure why. I'm still pretty devestated from what has transpired. Again, I'm not sure.

I guess I need to start believing in myself more. So much to think about. So many dissappointments, so much time invested and lost.

[Vorlon]

AFWAW,

I have been following your sitch since you first joined this board. As a retired AF SNCO I too spent many years of my career away from my wife and family. It is part of what makes us who we are and different from those who have not lived the life. Not better or worse just different. It is choice we make and like the choice your wife made to break her vows and destroy your relationship. You and your wife unfortunately are also follwoing in another long tradition of marriage problems due to long seperations. I won't condem your wife..It would be too easy and serve no purpose. You have recieved great advice. You have followed it pretty closely and have had some success. There is a time and a place for doing what is right and in your case you have to start doing it now!

The right thing is often the hardest. It rarely gets rewarded for it is it's own reward. You know this in your heart.

You have been more generous and kind and forgiving than 90% of the population of men in this situation. What has it gotten you? What has it done/doing to your daughter?

IMHO: Your wife is cake eating. She is/has had an inapproproate relationship with and officer. She is guilty and so is he. You have a duty to make him live by his committments. This is not a choice for if you let him off the hook he will do it again and defame the service and his country. He knows the law and the regulations. He has no respect for you and thinks he is above it all because he is an Officer. Those types are a danger to all of us. I saw a few of them in my time so it is not new.

You will survive without a cheating wife. She is not the women you married. She has reveled her true colors. What her chaarcter is truely made of. I'm not saying she can't change as we all change but in your eagerness to try and bring her back and your generosity it has given her free reign to disrespect you in front of friends and collegues (What person would do that to somebody they loved and respected). She no longer feels the love and respect for you that is required ina marriage and thus you have to take strong action if it is to ever change. You are a proud man..Not to pround that you can't foregive a mistake. But this is not a mistake. It is willful, porposeful and destructive behavior that she is not facing any consequesnces for. IMO that has to stop. There are choices we all make. Each has a consequence.

I would say you are a far better human being than I am. I would have gone scorched earth as soon as I knew the details. Remember: Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

I have been married 23 years. Two years ago and after I retired we almost split. It took me on a journey that has taken alot of time and a lot of effort. I had to come to the full realization that I could live and live well without my wife if it came to that. I then had to make a choice each day weather I wanted to stay married to this women. I weighed it against all the factors I wanted in mate and surprisely she still fit the bill. But it didn't stop there..it took work from both parties and full accountability from each of us to make it work. Personally I would have wlaked away in your situation. But this isn't about me.

I think you need to really be ready to walk. Even file for divoce under grounds of adultry if that is possible in your state. Divorce can mean the end of your current marriage. But then it may be the thing that can let you two build a new marriage from the ashes of the old one. One in which you both choose everyday to be with each other. Life is about choices. Choose wisely.

Good Luck my friend...I have felt your pain, anguish and anger. I have felt disgust at what your wife has put you through. I know you are a strong man and you will prevail. The future is bright. You just need to face it without fear or reservation. Stand tall and take the steps that are right for you and your daughter. You wife has chosen her path. Let her live with it. If she wakes up in time she will come pounding at your door. It will only work if it comes from her. You must walk your own path now!

Vorlon