Sandi's in Piecing and it's getting better

[sandi2]

It was so good to hear about your stitch, even though I wished it could have been more positive for you and your wife. You ask about my EA and admitting it to my H. Acutally, there was nothing to "admit" since he had caught me red handed by finding all my messages to the OM on the computer. He also caught me talking to the OM with my webcam on, and I did not even know my H was anywhere around. He did not tell me about that until later. As far as apologizing, I did tell him that I had not wanted to hurt him......and I think I do remember telling him at some point that I was sorry. But, in the very beginning, I was so defensive b/c my H was acting so self-righteous that it caused very hard feelings toward him. I already had very deep rooted resentment that stemmed from many years, so that just made it worse. I was the one that tried to get "him" to go to a MC and he would have no part of it. I was hurt b/c I felt that he was to blame for my lonliness, the neglect, my emotional empiness, etc., that caused me to turn to another man. That is not to say that I did not take responsibility for my own actions, but I could have opened up better if he had just admitted that to his part of the breakdown in the M, but he said he had never done anything wrong. Well, that caused me to put up a barrier that took quite some time for me to try to overcome and if it had not been for this board and the help I found here, I would hate to know what state our M would be in today.

One thing that I have found that seems to be a common problem is that all the LBH's want to hear a verbal apology from their WW's. I did not realize how important it was to a H until I kept reading it on the board.........even though my H was hurt b/c I had not apologized to him (as he pointed out at that time). As I said, I finally did at some point, but it was hard since he would not own his part of the problems. He said he did not want to rehash old things from the past, but it was those things that kept mounting up to my actions. At least, that was how I saw it.

You are right about the less time you spend together--the less you will want to be together.......when you are having problems. There are times that I think a couple needs to take a break for a few days from each other if things are seriously bad enough, but I know what you are talking about and I agree. As for the attraction, that is something that is very, very slow coming for the wife if she had a deep EA and if she will not distant herself from the OM, I am concerned that she is not working toward "trying" to find attraction for you. I'm not saying that it is not possible (b/c I really don't know) but I think it would be extremly difficult to continue to be around a person you were having an EA with and be able to get over that person and have sexual feeling for your H who you were already feeling very distant to.

I understand her saying how she "wanted to love you, but felt no attraction" b/c that was exactly how I felt toward my H even after I broke off the EA and I even told him I did not know if I would ever feel for him what I once did.

I have to stop here and go to work, but I will get back and finish this. My heart goes out to you b/c I know you are in pain. I have learned from men like you here on the board to understand my own H better, b/c he would never discuss it with me.

Talk to you later,
Sandi

[Thinker]

Hi Stuck,

Seems like you are having some of the same troubles I am. I sympathize. It's not easy.

Unfortunately, I'm also still trying to figure out the solutions.

[sandi2]

Okay, I'm back to try to finish what I started this morning. I know that I'm not being encouraging but I am trying to be as honest as I can.

As i said, I did apologized to my H and I did not set out to try to hurt him. I got caught up in something very bad and then got addictied to it. Anyway, I felt guilty and defensive and mad when he confronted me. Like your wife, I wanted to love him but was not attracted to him. It was not until I completely cut all ties with the OM that I begin to feel any feelings for my H at all. So, I am worried that with her seeing her OM every day that it has not put the fires out for her. Now, if the OM was to really do her bad and tick her off bad enough that she could hate his guts.....then she probably would get over him and turn her feelings back to you. But, that is the easy way out for her. It is when you are still carrying a torch for the OM and just do it out of your "free will" and not your heart that is tough!

I will say this for my H, he has never brought up the OM to me and we don't talk about the R unless I say something about it, which I haven't said very much. You may not agree with me, but I think my case is somewhat different b/c of mine and his health issues. It really puts a damper on the romantic side of things. Maybe it goes with getting older, but I wasn't expecting it this soon.....lol. He is in a rut and "settled" and it is hard for me, but with me not feeling well myself, I don't have the energy to do much about it. But, we do get along. In fact, I don't think we've had one argument since all of that happened with OM.

You may want to talk to Puppy, if he is still on here. The last I heard, he was going to take a break b/c he and his wife were not apparently making a go of things. She is one that could never feel attracted to him after her A.

Don't judge your stitch by me or my stitch. I waited late in life to decide to go crazy..... I hope your wife will realize what is best for her and the two of you can go on with your lives and be happy together. Anytime you need to talk, I'll be here. I wish I could be more helpful. It took me a very long time, Stuck, so it probably will your wife also.

Take care,
Sandi

[MrBond]

Hi Sandi.

I totally understand what you're saying and I'm dealing with her working with the OM as best I can.

Like yourself she had been very defensive about bringing him up and I think she's struggling with it.

The two recent times I brought up the OM was because I had gotten to the point where I was sick of her treating me like I was a sex offender whenever I got close. I brought to the forefront all of the things that she asked me to do to further her EA which at the time I didn't it was. Afterwards, she was surprised and told me she didn't realize she did all of that.

I think that's why in her mind she's trying, but unless he understands how she gave away our attraction and gave it to the OM, it's going to take awhile.

I have to admit though that I really miss ML. It's been over a year and my W has expressed no interest. I sure it's because of her emotions not being engaged. Out of curiosity, when you were coming off your high of the OM, did you first initiate ML with your H to try or did he? If it was your H, did you see it as pursuing?

I don't want to seem like I'm pursuing too much and am trying to give her as much space as possible. But until she opens up about what's going on internally, I'm not going to get a shot.

[MrBond]

You are right about one thing though. We LBS really need to hear an apology. At the very least, it's to reassure us that it won't happen again and we won't be going through that same pain.

[sandi2]

Hi Stuck,

Well, the truth about our ML is that my H is not able to perform sex b/c of his health and the medication he is on will not allow him to take anything to help in the sex department. (He was having that problem before the EA happened) Also, we both are taking anit-depressent meds which decreases the sex drive. We both have sleeping problems and most of the time we end up sleeping in recliners. (Told ya we sound like an old couple...lol). However, we do show affection. I was the one to make the first move in doing that and it was hard. I did not see that as pursuing but more of a sign to him that I was trying to move forward in the M. At times, I really miss the intimacy and think that I am ready for it, but at other times......I just don't know. I hate to say that b/c I truly do believe that a lot of mine has to do with my health and the meds. I never had a high sex drive and that caused a lot of problems in our M when we were younger. Just as I was coming around to, I suppose my sexual peak, that is when he backed off without saying a word and I didn't know what was going on. I never could get a reasonable answer from him. I should have just pursued him, but I was never very good at that and waited for him to make the first move. Then other things happened that would take too long to tell, but it interferred with our intimacy.

I can't begin to know how much pain you must be in. I try to think what it must be like for you, but I know that I can't. I can say this much about your wife, though. As long as she is defensive about the OM and she does not show any remorse about the EA or show any signs of change of attitude towards you......then she is not near over him, IMHO. If she is in MLC, that answers why she does not remember a lot of things you pointed out to her. But, as long as she is working with OM, it will feed her MLC and the EA is likely to turn into a PA if the OM is equally interested in your W.

You have to make the decision to use some of Puppy's rules where living with a WW is concerned, wait it out and hope that you can outshine the OM and she will finally see that, or drop the rope and move on with your life. I am not suggesting which one to do b/c only you know what you are capable of withstanding. Even if she drops the OM and really is over him, there will be times (I think)that she will miss whatever connection they had......unless you and she can have the type of R that fulfills her emotionally. That is the problem I find myself in at rare moments. When I feel like I need that "closeness" and I look over at my H and he is passed out on the couch........well, you get the picture.

Well, I find it is time to leave for work again, so maybe we can talk more later.

Take care,
Sandi

[MrBond]

Hi Sandi,

Again thank you so much for your sage advice. It has really helped me in the bad times. Not to be TMI or anything, but have you and your H looked at sex aids (toys, etc.) Don't know if that would've helped you in that dept. if H can't physically perform. There's alot of other ways to be intimate without one on one physical contact. It's just the shared connection and the effort that matters I think.

And I really don't see you as "old". Just mature with alot of sass and sauciness in you. : )

I think my W is trying in out sitch in her own way. And she believes that she can see the OM every day and not affect her personally. That seems to be her attitude.

It's the building back the attraction part that's rough with the OM there and her not saying "okay I'll stay in the M, let's work it out". I always have this paranoid fear that one day I'll come home and she'll just be gone. I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop because there has been no encouragement from her end.

Here's what I was thinking of doing, feel free to let me know what you think based on what you went through getting over the OM. Mama Mia is opening here next month. I was thinking of buying a couple of tickets and sending them over to her workplace along with a single rose and a card saying "You are cordially invited".

If your H had done something like that in your sitch, would you have gotten upset or would you be polite and go, or would you have thought it was a sweet gesture.

Just trying to get some ideas to re-attract her and outshine the OM as much as possible.

[sandi2]

Dear Stitch,

I appreciate wheat you had to say. I don't comment a lot about my sex life b/c once before I was pulled over into the SSM forum and it just went from bad to worse. I agree with what you said, though. One problem we have and I think a lot of young couples have (except with younger couples they are just spread too thin with too many activites that they are exhausted at the end of the day) with out health problems, we are just spent by the time we get home. So, it is very few times that we even feel well enough to want to "play" around. I know that sounds terrible, but you may discover someday what I mean. That is why I keep hoping that I can find a doctor to help me so that I will/can be the one to put more effort out there b/c I think my H is still subconsciously waiting on me. But, like I said, we are doing okay, so I am not worried.

As for your question about the tickest and the rose for your wife.......I think that would be so romantic. However, the whole thing would rest on her attitude towards you, the marriage and if she is sincere about wanting to work on it. If she has not even as much as told you she is sorry about the EA or that she wants to stay in the M and work on it......then I don't think that is a good sign. Now, if you want to try it as a "test" to see where she is emotionally with you, then you could at least try to show that you are working at a R. She may accept your invitation and yet be stand-offish thinking that you will expect more from her. I'm sorry, but I forgot and don't have time to go back and look right now, but did you say if you two are still ML or not. If you are, then I would try it, but I would not build my hopes up. I just don't think she is over this OM and is feeding you a bunch of bull about being able to work with him......yada, yada, yada.

I wish I could talk longer, but I have to run. Late for work. Let me know what you decide.

Sandi

[sandi2]

Hey Stuck, how do you like the way I changed your name to stitch? LOL! I made so many typos that I laughed when I read my post. Didn't have enough time and was trying to hurry too much. Maybe you will be able to muddle through what I was trying to say.

I realize that each case is different b/c it has a lot to relate to that particular person's age, MR, and everything around the stitch. Why that wife felt the need to turn to another man, etc. So, you can't measure what one person was like with your wife or how she may react to what you do......however, I understand perfectly well your reasons for asking your questions and don't blame you b/c I would probably be doing the same thing if I were in your shoes. I just wished I could say more to help. I think it has much to do with the breaking off of the EA and to how she will respond to you. As I said before, if the OM did something that really ticked her off and she finally woke up and wondered what she ever saw in him, then that would be an answer to prayer b/c she would forget about him a lot quicker and certainly not carry a torch for him any longer. She would be ready to get back to who she use to be in her life before all that stuff with the EA/OM started. But, it doesn't always happen that way, especially if they are feeding each other's egos. What concerns me is if he is as involved in it as she is, then he is going to start pushing for a PA. You KNOW he will......any man will if he thinks there is a chance of it happening even one time! So, that is why I think her deciding to continue to work with him and telling you that it won't affect her is a bunch of "stuff". Does she have a job where she could move to a different office or department to get away from seeing him every day? I just wondered if it is a situation where she really has no say in any of it in order to keep her job or if it would mean looking for new employment. I know this is not a good time to be looking for a new job with the economy like it is, but she may have to decide which is more valuable to her........the job or the marriage.......or the OM.

I don't know what you will decide about the tickets and the rose (which I think is so sweet and romantic) but I know with me.....if my H had done that before i was over the OM or while I was still involved in an EA.....it would not have been a good thing. I realize that is not what you want to hear, but you know I try to be as honest as I can with you. But, some wives are on such a roller coaster that they can accept an invitation from their H's like that and really enjoy it and maybe go home and ML with him, and then the next day be cold as ice to him. So, you never know what to expect if they are in MLC or an EA. I just know that I could not or would not have done it as long as I was involved with the OM. But that is just me.

Talk to you later. I hope things will go as you want them to, Stuck.

Take care,
Sandi



Sandi

[MrBond]

Hi Sandi,

As always, you're spot on in your observations. My W is a nurse and her former boss is a doctor with a major God complex. Always flirted with the young girls, short tempered and fiery, etc. Now she handles the scheduling for her dept. so sees him often but doesn't work directly under him.

I do see a certain amount of depression on her part that has gotten better, but flares up every now and then. I'm sure it's a combo of her doubts about our M, her feelings of feeling stuck in the M, the stress of wanting to do the right thing (stay in M) and the loss of the OM.

To her credit though, she's pleasant at home and the sitch has gotten better. Although yes, a sincere apology would be great and her not working with the OM would terrific. Even though she can move to another dept. I know she has looked before around Feb. but has since stopped.

What I've been doing is interacting with her through the idea of "tipping points". I don't remember if I first read about it here, but the theory is that we all have tipping points are what lead us to continue to do positive things or negative ones. An example of a tipping point is like when someone says (the straw that broke the camel's back). The idea is to do a positive action to see if you get a positive reaction. If that happens, you continue the positive action as long as you keep getting a positive reaction. Then you increase the positive action with another that's a step up from the first action. even more positive.

So for me, I started out with lying with her in the same bed. She was reluctant at first, but relaxed after a couple of weeks even though she specifically would say "stay on your half of the bed". After she got comfortable, I would move closer to her a little each week. Now we can share the same blanket and she doesn't mind me putting my arm around her.

In terms of going out, I started by talking to her casually for at least 15 minutes every night about her day. I never told her I would do that, but I just did it. As things got comfortable, I next asked her her out to lunch last week. It was awkward, but manageable. Then this week, I asked her if she wanted to stay up without the kids to watch some tv. She agreed and it was also nice.

So my next step would be to ask her to a movie (daytime) and lunch. All this before our evening out to see Mama Mia. And although it would be nice to ML that night, I'm not expecting it.

It's almost like dating someone new.

All of these baby steps can get frustrating and I have to admit, I do miss the sex. In fact, my W hadn't initiated sex in over 6 years unless she was drunk. I don't know if she lost a little of her libido after our first D, but that would be the ultimate. If she could be the one asking for sex.

I even asked her recently how many times she felt in the mood when we were separated for the 6 months. She told me only a couple of times and even then, she would just think about, get tired and go to sleep. She wouldn't even satisfy herself.

I wonder if there's such a thing as an "average" in terms of sexual urges for women. My W had no problems at all before we had our first D.