Glad you came down to our forum. You are in good company!
What your H doesn't realize, is that you showing discontent and rocking the boat is actually a GOOD thing. If he realized that his choices are either this discomfort and saving/improving his marriage or you living numb and turning to secret external sources of comfort, he would certainly choose the former.
I am so happy that you are both in counseling, separately and together. That is excellent! I hope that your H can find forgiveness and peace soon so that you can begin working together on the root of the problem that led you to the EAs in the first place.
Please keep reading and keep posting. This is a great place to heal and grow.
After another evening of excrutiating talking....husband says he feels numb..and that he feels that this is going in the direction of divorce whether we think it is or not...I said i am also numb but not ready to say we are ready for a divorce...we talked at length about how I have made him feel badly about himself over the years and he has just been "doing what he thought he was supposed to do".. and I asked him "how could that have been making you happy?" and he said it hadnt'been....so i told him it was no wonder he had ignored me all those years...and i admitted ( rather painfully) that there was a part of me that felt he hasnt been enough for me, which he always interprets as sexually..We talked about me going on the website again and i told him that part of me was actually grateful that i had done it b/c it opened my eyes up to things I didnt realize I like sexually.. which he thinks i would have found that out eventually, but i wouldnt have b/c we did not try new things..I told him i was very sorry that it hurt him and i knew i was wrong.. and that i know that there were other ways for me to "feel better" like i did when i went on there.. BUt i also told him that i was not going to apologize for wanting more in bed.. as painful as it is for him.
He said he didnt know how to feel.. he was just numb . HE keeps throwing it out at me that he knows that a divorce is what i want..( mainly last night b/c i came home from ball practice not upset about our conversation on the phone) I told him i have cried so much over the past 2 months that it just seems pointless to cry..
I said although i feel numb also and I also see divorce as a possible outcome.. im not ready to say that is what i want..we have been married too long and have 2 beatiful kids and feel we owe it to each other and the kids to try to move past this somehow..we will obviously have to become different kinds of people.. HE says that i have always been bitter.. and i probably have.. i wonder if it has been b/c early on i felt he was not who i thought i wanted him to be.. I told him that i realize i have to work on my personal happiness.. thus what i am doing so far.. but he also has to work on his issues.. ( which he feels are not really pertinant) or feels they are a result of me.. which i dont think is fair, and then somewhere in this process we have to "date" each other again..
This is an example of our communication problems..he says he always tried to be nice to me he bought me flowers over the years and i had said they were nice.. but also at one point said they were a waste of money.. I KNOW IT SOUNDS BITCHY!... but i am not a flowers and candy kind of person.. and he never noticed it.. i told him that it didnt impress me to stop and buy flowers.. what would have impressed me was to have him get up one morning w/ the kids so i could have slept in.. or take them by himsefl so i could shop one day by myself.. but it was easier for him to buy the flowers and that is what he liked to do so i should have been happy w/ that... he didnt get that whole discussion..That was just one of many episodes we talked about..
This seems like such a daunting thing hanging over our heads.. we both are now numb to one another, he is angry over my online affair and I am saddled w/ severe indecision and personal unhappiness..my god how do you find the ability to even start trying? I feel like i can barely talk w/ him its so painful..
Well, I can say from what you are describing that many MANY other people have the same types of issues. Men think one way, women think another, they both communicate differently, different people show love in different ways, it is very common for a man not to "get it" that he needs to man up, and it is very common for a woman not to "get it" that she needs to soften up and be more supportive of her man....you two really do not have issues (that you have shared so far) that are that far from common.
I know you are already trying to find some books to help you both out, but I just want to re-iterate that there are many books which could really, truly help you both understand each other, and to realize that neither of you are that far off base from each other or from most other couples....
Personally I would suggest that you both start with reading the Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus original book by John Gray.
Personally I would suggest that you both start with reading the Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus original book by John Gray.
Ditto, what DanceQueen said.
I was thinking of the same book when I read your post: primarily because you and your husband are at a starting place similar to where my wife and I were in the Summer of 2007 -- and that is the book that WE started with, and that really began to open -our- eyes to each other and our differences. It also gives some very practical, easy to implement steps in how to begin bridging the gaps between estrainged husband and wife. Here is the link:
Well.. i ordered the book and asked him if he would read it.. he said he would..
my question is .. what do u do w/ this horribly overwhelming feeling of "I dont know if I have feelings for him anymore"...I think it is so overwhelming for both of us to come out and admit we havent been happy.. and on top of that I feel guilty for the damage i've done.. i cant even begin to muster any feelings other than.. sadness..How do I reach out to him if Im still not sure i want to? I think that is where we are stuck.. we dont know what we want..
I am so glad i have found this site.. i wish he would find somewhere similar..he has reached out to an old friend... rather than his brother (who he normally talks to) as to spare me the humilation of having my mistakes aired in the family.. so hopefully he feels better talking w/ someone..
I dont think we have any real bizarre issues.. we just seem like we have drifted to two different planets.. and now have no idea how we feel about each other.. we have been caught up in our daily living that it has caught up w/ us..and the recent traumatic events in our life has spurred some kind of realization on my part.. and forced him to honestly look if he was happy.. I have never had a time where i didnt know how I felt about something, so this is very hard and scary for me.. i've always known where i was going and what i wanted.. or at least i thought i did...its very difficult to think that you are putting your happiness on a scale next to the well being of the rest of the familiy...i feel very selfish..
BUt when i read the posts on the WAW, i can see that being me if i had not addressed this now..staying till the kids were grown then one day getting in my car and not coming back..and that is not the healthy way to deal w/ it..so i guess its deal w/ it now or deal w/ it later.. Thank you all so much for your suggestions.. HJR
HJR...First of all, you are still in the withdrawal period from your on-line activities. So you need to wait until that process is done within you before you can decide how you really feel. No doubt, at this time, you are still longing to connect with some of the people you met on-line and you think about it constantly.
THIS will fade away! Trust me! You have to give it time, though. You need to realize it was just fantasy...therefore, you can tap back into that fantasy (in a healthy way) later when you have finished going through withdrawal. In other words, nothing on the chat site you went to and no person on that site holds the KEY to your sexuality. YOU DO, YOU HOLD THE KEY. You unlocked YOURSELF during that fantasy play. It was not unlocked by a particular person nor any particular play you were doing.
So many people will confuse their new found sexual feelings with the feelings of "love", and then they will follow or chase that feeling right out the door....only to find out later that they have actually experienced a false sense of intimacy and it wasn't real.
Then there is a let down, heartbreak, and the confusion of "what just happened"?
IMO, you are really lucky that you have stopped that activity and haven't gone back. Because now, you have the chance of not only examining your marriage and your feelings, but also you can *eventually* bring that fantasy sex life back for yourself, and hopefully you can do that with your husband.
Please give yourself a full 30 days (at the minimum) to allow for the withdrawal period to subside. After that you will be much less confused, because you will no longer be thinking about the on-line life and wanting to go back to it. Eventually you will not feel the pull to go back there anymore.
And during that 30 days, please do not make any rash decisions about your marriage. You are only 1 step on a very very long journey of steps. But hey, at least you've started the journey with that 1 step! Gotta start somewhere!!
Read books, be good to yourself, don't go back on meds, stay off the chat thing.....for one whole month. And then you will begin to think more clearly....
I hope the two of you have a good, pro-marriage, couples counselor that you can talk to weekly and let them guide you --> it will be a long, slow process, but I have hope for you based upon what you've described and done so far. Not being a counselor myself, take the below with grain or two of salt, but I see three simultaneous things that need to occur with both you and your husband:
(1) Over many sessions and conversations, talk through your marital history and FINALLY share all of those things that the two of you have kept hidden from each other: all of the hurts, dashed expectations, missed needs / wants, and so forth. Always keep the responsibility equally balanced between you and him -- any time a relationship falters, it is always the fault of TWO people, not one. Just getting all of this old baggage and dirty laundry out in the open will go a long way toward beginning the healing process: be generous in both your forgiveness of your spouse and acceptance of blame. Really LISTEN to each other, and hear from their perspective.
(2) Recall, relive, and talk about the happy times of your first meetings, dating, courtship, marriage, and newlywed time period. Recall, relive, and talk about what you initially found attractive in your spouse. In a -very- strained relationship, this can be hard to do for either or both spouses: they either have trouble just remembering these times, or they can only recall them with bitterness. But being able to do the above is crucial to repairing your marriage -- both of you have to regain the ability to see in your spouse the person that you fell in love with again.
(3) Research and then begin to implement positive changes in YOURSELF that will (a) make yourself more attractive to your spouse, and (b) begin to meet your spouses needs / wants for the relationship. Small changes, small steps, over many months DO add up --> keep them small and sustainable, not quick-fixes that die away in a few weeks. Obviously, each partner must do the above for it to work.
A final thought for you, HJR. One simple way of categorizing people is to divide them into those who are passionate & emotional, and those who are even-keeled, steady & laid back. Passionate people tend to confront even the smallest bit of conflict head-on and loudly, while steady people tend to keep the peace and avoid conflict and keep complaints to themselves.
When two passionate people marry it tends to make for a somewhat unstable household, with extravagant highs in the relationship (complete with skyrockets), and terrible lows (complete with flying pots and pans). Some make it work, but often, a few lows are enough to do them in.
When a passionate person marries a steady person the two tend to compliment each other and balance out the other one's natural undesirable tendencies. The passionate person rarely lets a conflict get swept under the rug, and is able to bring the steady person along on some of those nice, passionate highs. The steady person keeps the passionate person from getting too down and negative, or, at least acts as and anchor and calming influence. This makes for a nice self-correcting type of relationship, but I'm biased, since this describes MY relationship (with me as the passionate one).
When two even-keeled, steady people marry, one would think that this would be ideal -- but it's not. Since both people tend to avoid conflict, any negative complaints or issues tend to never be voiced and instead get swept under the rug. Over the years, the pile of stuff under the rug gets so big, it starts to get in the way: the "weight" of negative feelings and resentments begins to overwhelm any positive feelings that may be there, until neither partner can feel ANY positive feelings...they become numb and the relationship becomes stuck. These are the couples who seem to have ideal, peaceful marriages with never an argument or ill-spoken word, but who then suddenly divorce each other after 25 years and the kids have left home. Sound familiar? (John Gray talks about this in one of the final chapters of his Mars/Venus book.)
If this describes the two of you, then it will be a natural tendency that the two of you will have to change permanently in order to make the marriage -really- work, not just appear to work.
-- Bagheera
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
HJR - The Mars/Venus book will not address specific issues that you and your H have...but it will help you both to understand each other by understanding the basic gender differences in communication. It will not, however, give you a road map to recovering your marriage. It will be part of the base line of knowledge that you will both need in order to fully understand "what happened" for you two to both grow so far apart!
