Yeah, when hopeful71 first posted I thought that she may be someone who knows your W or your W. I'd love to hear the story from her eyes if it is your W, and maybe we can help her to see clearly that an affair is NEVER the way to go. We will be here for YOU, too, hopeful71.
Yeah, when hopeful71 first posted I thought that she may be someone who knows your W or your W. I'd love to hear the story from her eyes if it is your W, and maybe we can help her to see clearly that an affair is NEVER the way to go. We will be here for YOU, too, hopeful71.
And if it is my W or one of her friends, I just want D1 in the best position she can be in life. I don't want the cycle repeating itself. I've mentioned on multiple occasions to W, I would always stand behind her 100% if she chose to get help for her emotional problems.
I'd love to hear the story from W's eyes as well, because I'm not afraid of anything that would be true.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
Yesterday's visitation with D1 went well. W/MIL were both standoffish but polite enough during the pickup. D1 came to me pretty quickly like last week, but when I was going to leave W leaned in and kissed D1 while I was holding her - closest contact I've had with her in a while.
Went to the mall, though I have to be careful because strolling a baby around in a stroller through the mall is like a chick magnet lol. :p
After that we went to a store a distant cousin of mine owns near where I used to live. Then went to the park, and met a family who had a 1.5 year old daughter who got a kick out of D1 as they were swinging next to each other.
Got lots of pictures, a few people noticed how my sons would hold D1's hands and walk on either side of her while she walked along. She should be able to walk without assistance soon.
Took her home after that, and she was very tired and ended up falling asleep on my shoulder for 2 hours.
W/MIL showed up to pick her up, W leaning in close to kiss D1 again when taking her off my shoulder, and MIL brought me $6 worth of coupons for when I take the kids to get their hair cut. I suppose I can deduct that from the thousands of dollars W has already made me spend for the D she wanted.
They both showed a lot of affection towards my sons, which bothered me primarily in the case of W because she put her arm around S8 and said "I love you" which is something I haven't heard her tell him since... last year sometime.
They are obviously trying to get some sort of reaction out of me, or wanting to play "one big happy family" at this point since I'm zeroing in on W legally, but it is just too late now so that it appears anything but genuine.
If W wants anything even resembling a friendship at this point - I require complete honesty, remorse, and an expressed desire to do what it takes to work together for D1 - even if not as H&W.
I re-read the DR book, specifically the sections on LRT and Infidelity. Pretty sure I'm doing pretty well on that - simply because my focus isn't on the M but D1.
Feeling nostalgic a bit today, but ultimately the distance helps I think in focusing on me.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
If your W is still in full affair mode, the performance she is giving is the one she is playing and believing in her head. She thinks, "I love these kids, and it is so sad that I don't love DCBM anymore. I wish it were different. I really love these kids, but I can't stay in a marriage when I don't love DCBM. He had an affair on me, too. He knows we don't belong together deep down, but won't admit it. I'm doing the hard thing, but it is for the best." MIL is believing it because she doesn't know any better and feels bad for you as well, ...but what can she do? (she thinks)
You know this, but I will repeat it. Your wife has the foggy mind of someone in an affair. Their thoughts are unclear because of the feelings they are having with this new person. She is thinking how much she feels for this other person so she can't possibly love you. It's all wrong, but it is what is going on inside of her.
The attack she had against you and the stories she made up and her trying to take your D away was one of anger. WHenever confronted of what she TRULY is doing, she is going to respond in anger. It helps cover what is truly happening. When the fog clears, there will be extreme guilt. Whether she admits it or not.
I know you are focusing on your daughter, now. Which is what you need to do. Your W needs help. Keep focusing on your daughter, but don't give up hope that your marriage can still be saved. It may not be, but there is still hope that it can be. You reread the book which is good. Work on yourself. Think about the things that you need to improve on and do those things. Look good, smell good, be the man you want to be. She WILL notice. If/when she wants to come back, you have all the things you need ready. You tell her those things and if she truly is ready to come back, she will do them. First thing being to get psychological help (if she truly has those issues), second "no contact" whatsoever with the OM, and third some sort of counseling. You probably think this information is not important right now, but you never know when she may come around.
If your W is still in full affair mode, the performance she is giving is the one she is playing and believing in her head. She thinks, "I love these kids, and it is so sad that I don't love DCBM anymore. I wish it were different. I really love these kids, but I can't stay in a marriage when I don't love DCBM. He had an affair on me, too. He knows we don't belong together deep down, but won't admit it. I'm doing the hard thing, but it is for the best." MIL is believing it because she doesn't know any better and feels bad for you as well, ...but what can she do? (she thinks)
My biggest problem with it is this:
1. MIL has consistently stated she loves my boys and considers them grandchildren, she has just made it more 'over the top' lately which I believe is for the purpose of softening me up - because they attacked me via their attorney without regard for how it would affect me or them and were cackling like hens when they thought they were going to get what they want - up until they walked out of the first hearing in stunned recognition that I was going to war. Every dollar wasted on this D is a dollar that doesn't go towards braces, college, ballet classes, etc. I've asked MIL on multiple occasions to just encourage W to enter into counseling with me, even if only to lower the conflict and improve communication. She responds by telling me that I need counseling and W is fine.
2. W in the beginning of our relationship encouraged the boys to call her "mom" and basically went full force into making herself to appear to be the ideal mother. Since our S, she has said things like "I've wasted 5 years of my life taking care of kids that aren't mine." and she has ignored them for the most part, just staring at them and going 'uh huh' whenever they try to talk to her. This weekend was a "180" for her in terms of saying "I love you" to S8 because prior to this she looked pained even trying to show him any affection. On multiple occasions she didn't even tell them hello, just came in and out and didn't bother talking to them. It is only when MIL is with her that she has shown them any notice.
It is an act - and I do not appreciate it.
Originally Posted By: whatdidido
You know this, but I will repeat it. Your wife has the foggy mind of someone in an affair. Their thoughts are unclear because of the feelings they are having with this new person. She is thinking how much she feels for this other person so she can't possibly love you. It's all wrong, but it is what is going on inside of her.
Yeah, and I'm quite certain she's going to hit rock bottom before realizing she made a mistake. I'm also quite certain that with her inability to take responsibility for anything that I'm going to be long gone emotionally by the time she attempts to wake up.
Originally Posted By: whatdidido
The attack she had against you and the stories she made up and her trying to take your D away was one of anger. WHenever confronted of what she TRULY is doing, she is going to respond in anger. It helps cover what is truly happening. When the fog clears, there will be extreme guilt. Whether she admits it or not.
Whatever she feels is irrelevant so long as it is having legal consequences for me (and her). If she is trying to "cover up" her A by making false DV allegations and attempting to restrict access to D1 she can go right to he11 in terms of expecting me to be "Mr. Nice Guy."
Originally Posted By: whatdidido
I know you are focusing on your daughter, now. Which is what you need to do. Your W needs help. Keep focusing on your daughter, but don't give up hope that your marriage can still be saved. It may not be, but there is still hope that it can be. You reread the book which is good. Work on yourself. Think about the things that you need to improve on and do those things. Look good, smell good, be the man you want to be. She WILL notice. If/when she wants to come back, you have all the things you need ready. You tell her those things and if she truly is ready to come back, she will do them. First thing being to get psychological help (if she truly has those issues), second "no contact" whatsoever with the OM, and third some sort of counseling. You probably think this information is not important right now, but you never know when she may come around.
Working on myself is going to be positive no matter which way things go. I've been fairly good about causing W to take notice, but ultimately I am doing it for me instead of her.
At this point she has caused thousands of dollars in damage, legal problems, and a host of other issues. I imagine she will feel too guilty to even have the nerve to ask if she can come back.
If she is willing to get help for her psychological problems, I will stand behind her. But I can no longer be invested in that particular outcome. It is quite likely she will be diagnosed with BPD based on the abundance of evidence, much of which pre-dates her relationship with me.
This doesn't make her a bad person - but it does make it abundantly clear that I am the superior parent in terms of caring for D1.
I listed 1-2 pages back what it would take for me to resume a relationship. Based on the legal realities and threat she poses it might be more than just unwise to resume a relationship with her if she isn't completely focused on getting help.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
You know your MIL and W. I don't. Putting your story on this forum allows us to tell you what we see and our thoughts on it, but you are the one IN your life so you know what's really going on. Sometimes, though, we get so caught up in what we think we know, that we may miss what's really going on. That's where it's nice to have someone else "outside of your life" help you to see or even just consider the possibility.
Some other possibilities to what's going on:
-Your MIL is realizing that she is losing these grandchildren and is reacting on that realization.
-Your MIL and W attacked you without forethought. They are now thinking. Your MIL may believe what you say about her daughter, even a little bit, but she is trying to stand by her daughter. Getting her daughter help seems like the best thing a mother should do, but perhaps she just doesn't see what you see at this point. She probably will, soon. Some of those things that were said before, may have been said hastily.
- The change in behavior of your wife toward your boys is awful. It is also typical of a spouse having an affair. Their only focus is on the affair, and all of these feelings that they feel they have never had with you. It really is a mind mess. When men have affairs often times it is purely sexual, for a woman it is mainly emotional. If she is "coming around" toward your boys, you COULD see it as a slight "coming out of the fog" moment.
-Perhaps it is NOT an act. You are angry, and the way they have changed their behavior does seem fishy, but some things you have said ARE typical of a spouse coming to some realizations.
-You are hardening your heart and building a wall up so that no matter what happens, reconciling will be near impossible.
-Not believing that her feelings have relevance, may taint your view on what is really going on.
Again, these are ALL just POSSIBILITIES. That's what we are here for. SOmetimes we may see something or think something you don't. Focusing on your daughter's care is the most important thing. I totally agree. Having a mother that is not getting help when she needs it is not good for your daughter or you. I get that.
This is a Divorce Busting website, and so my advice and thoughts are almost always about how to possibly repair the marriage. The possibility is ALWAYS there.
I truly appreciate the outside perspective, and it does give me something to ponder and consider when making decisions.
The main cause of anger I have at this point is that MIL has a short memory. I put a ton of emotional and mental energy into helping her after FIL passed away last year. None of her blood relatives did anything even approaching what I did. Yet she turned on me immediately when W started her current tirade.
In my estimation - she should have simply respected my M, supported W's decision to end it, etc. without resorting to the legal drama.
Quite possibly MIL/W are now having a period of reflection since reality doesn't seem to agree with them. I am a bit perturbed that it took me fighting back in order to get them to the realization stage.
Hardening my heart has been reflexive considering W's behavior. And it is quite possible any positive steps she takes towards reconciliation are based on the realization that I am moving on.
Too little, too late is what I'm expecting.
I won't take any actions (outside of court) to damage the M any further. I don't discuss anything except D1 with her, and I'm virtually cut off. I'm approaching the 5 month point post-bomb, so it is right about that time where I start to become the larger danger to the M if I don't detach as much as possible.
I imagine things will change after the hearing, for better or worse. I just know in my heart that it is time to move on at this point. W has shown virtually zero positive movement - outside of looking/acting guilty Saturday. That probably has to do with the fact that she hadn't gotten the OM-fix for a week or so.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
I know, DCBM. You have every right to be angry. Yes, MIL should have repected your M and stopped there. Your wife should not have gone outside of the marriage to find what was missing within herself and her marriage. Yes, if this realization only appeared because you fought back that is really sad. Yes, your heart hardening is understandable.
If she comes back, it WILL be because of you moving on (it is reality to her when she is in a fantasy like life right now). It will be after the damage is done, she will have made MANY, AWFUL mistakes.
Not taking any action outside of court is smart, and realizing that if you don't detach physically from her, and emotionally from the situation, you WILL become a larger danger to the marriage. Again, smart. Not saying you stop loving her or stop having hope, but detaching.
I, too, think after the hearing things will move in some sort of direction. If you can stop your heart from "moving on" your marriage still has a chance. I realize she has shown no positive movement, but if she is still in the affair this is not uncommon. Looking/acting guily is a GOOD sign. And, yes, if she has not gotten her fix, this could be why. She cannot see clearly when with the OM.
I'm speaking from experience, DCBM. I'm not sure if I told you before, but I was the one who had the affairs. I'm not mentally unstable like your wife could possibly be, but I know what an affair does to your thoughts about yourself, your life, and your marriage. If she can ever get to the realization of her mistakes/choices (which is extremely hard to do), and if she gets help, I hope you can find it in your heart to give her a second chance. DOn't harden your heart to that. It would be worth it to both of you and your daughter. Even if that chance has the tiniest percentage of occuring, it would be worth it to keep your heart open to that possibility. It's not over yet. Protect yourself legally, yes; but protect your heart from the point of no return.
