You said, "It really bothers me that I can't stop thinking about her. It bothers me that I haven't been able to 'detach'. I want to not think about her anymore, and I want to 'detach'. I just haven't been able to. How do you do it? She was able to drop me, and her feelings for me, like a hot rock. I want to do the same likewise...not giving up...just necessary for me to continue to progress. Any help or suggestions?"
Antlers - Yeah, I said that...but I meant that I'd like to be able to lovingly detatch. I think it'd help me to progress and get better and stronger.
Then you said, "Maybe the passage of more time will help some; she moved out on Feb. 22nd of this year...so it's going on two months. But I think it also requires some conscious effort on our parts. I find myself wondering where she is and what she's doing, etc. Basically...I miss her. I'd like to get to where I don't miss her, but I don't know how. Again, not giving up, just want to be able to get stronger and better. Having these emotions prevents me, I think, from doing that fully."
Antlers - again, I meant that I'd like to do better at loving detatchment. I still miss her, and I think about her often. I think the degree to which I do this is a hindrance to me doing better.
First of all, you don’t want to completely stop thinking about her! You don’t want to stop having feelings for her. That is not what detaching is. Now understand, many people have detached so much that they do reach this place you are talking about! They don’t think about their spouse and they discover they don’t have the feelings they once did. But is that what you really want? If you want to reconcile with your wife, then the answer should be “no”. If you are headed for divorce, then maybe you do need to completely stop. But, which is it?
Antlers - No, I don't! I'd just like to do it less. I still have a lot of feelings for her. I want to continue to care for her...I don't see that changing. I do want reconciliation with my wife. I am committed to her and our marriage.
You ask how to do this and yet you have been told. Are you listening? You were never told it was easy. Are you GAL? Are you setting goals for yourself? Are you staying busy and moving forward? Are you continually working to improve yourself so that you will be more interesting, more fun, more attractive, more sexy, more intelligent, a better friend, and a better father? Are you reading books about parenting? Did you check into the books I recommended?
Antlers - I guess I need to be reminded occasionally...yeah, I'm listening...I'm trying to soak this stuff up like a sponge. Nope...it ain't easy. It's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. I'm riding my bike on my days off, I'm going to the range with buddies, I'm doing some hunting, and I have our kids on my days off. Yeah, my goals are to become a better man, father, and husband...and to be more compassionate. I'm staying pretty busy, and I'm trying to move forward. It's a slow go, but I think I'm progressing. I am working to improve myself. As for being more interesting...that remains to be seen. I'm trying to be more fun...I know that fun and enthusiasm attracts people like a magnet. I've been told that I look a lot better, by many people. Sexy? C'mon...I feel about as sexy as a potato right now! I'm learning lots of stuff, so I think I'm at least exercising my cognitive abilities. I have good friends, and I consider them a gift from God...and I'm working to be a better friend back. Definately, I'mn working to be a better father...I've got my work cut out for me there. Right now I'm reading 'Love Without Hurt', 'Divorce Busting', and 'Divorce Remedy'. I have 'Parenting With Love and Logic" but haven't started it yet. Yes I did...I have ordered them from Barnes & Noble and Borders.
You have done good to come here to post about your stitch. It is fine to journal and to pour out your hurt. You have done good to go to other people’s posts and encourage them. BTW, I have read some and they are good. But you have to work, work, and work some more. It is hard! But you cannot give up! It has not been quite two months since she moved out of the house. That seems like a long time to you b/c you have been in a lot of pain, but actually, it is a short time. She needs time……much more time. You are doing good to keep your distance from her. Continue to do that.
Antlers - I think so too! I agree. Yeah...we are here to support each other as well as learn. Thanks. I have compassion for the others here. Knowing what to do and actually doing them are two different things though. I struggle. I know I have TONS of work to do, but I'm committed to do it. I have no intention of giving up...this attitude is so contrary to what everybody else thinks though! They accuse ous of holding onto false hope and not facing reality. I don't feel that way. These two months seem like 2 years to me...I realize that in the scheme of things...that's not long at all. Especially since we've been together for nearly two decades. I know she needs a lot of time. I wonder though about what she's doing and where she's at though. Maybe it's insecurity, but I do it. Wish that I didn't. I plan on keeping my distance from her. It hurts, bad, to not sit together anymore at the kids activities...but if that's what she wants and needs...I must abide by it.
You did real good with your oldest daughter. I think I understand what she means by it being unfair to her. I think she means that you were too hard on her and now the younger kids are getting away with whatever they say or do. I felt that way with my parents. But, your answer was very, very good. Yes, she needs time.
Antlers - Thanks. I felt pretty good about it too, afterwards. I agree...she does feel slighted. I know she needs time too! She probably has some built up resentment and anger like my wife. I never thought about that very much until you brought it to my attention. Thank you.
Do you get the show on TV called “The Nanny”? Usually the kids are younger that are shown in the families on that program, but it may give you some thoughts about how to deal with yours. One thing I believe she teachers (and also Dr. James Dobson) is a “point system”. Now, for young children, you may use like marbles in a jar or something like that. Older kids can have a chart with their names on it. The purpose is that when they do their chores, they get a marble or a point. Each chore needs to be named on the chart. If there is no signs of disrespect from the kids when you say something to them………they get a point. AT first, they may need to be reminded for a while about the chores, but then after a short time……the "reminding" should stop and they do it on their own. I would tell them in the beginning just how long you planned to remind them and when that time would end....give them the date…..then all reminders stop. If they are told to do something and they do not backtalk, cuss, sass or throw a temper tantrum……they get another "bonus" marble or point. When bedtime comes and there is no fuss about it……another bonus point. You decide how many points “earn” them rewards to do certain things or maybe earn a certain amount of money/allowance for them to have and to spend. Perhpas you could combine allowance and privileges.
Antlers - yeah, I get it...but I haven't been watching much TV. I'll check it out though, because I could use all the help that's available to me. Do you think this point system is appropriate for kids that are nearly 12 and 13 years old? It sounds good. I'd sure be willing to use it.
BTW, the point system is your choice and the kids do not get to vote for or against it! Also, I'm sure you know to not use the same chart for every kid. It needs to be persoalized according to gender and age.
Antlers - Makes sense that it needs to be individualized.
The idea behind the point system.....whether you use marbles in a jar or checks on a chart....is that whenever they DON’T do what they are suppose to do without being told (like picking up their things, cleaning their rooms, etc.)....they do not get a point or marble. If they talk back, cuss, sass, act out, throw a fit or whatever they do when they don’t get their way or don’t like what you tell them.....then a point or marble is taken away. If the fit continues after the point is taken away, then you may have to use further measures.
Antlers - sounds reasonable. Do you think it'll work for kids that are as old as mine are. They are really a handful right now...they are bothered by what's going on between their parents, and they are bothered by how I used to behave, and they are bothered by the weakness that they've seen from me ever since my wife began pulling away from me.
There should be a certain amount of points earned for certain jobs they do; and there should be a certain amount of points lost for negative behavior they show. The rewards can be whatever you decide and how many points it requires to earn it. You may or may not want to allow them to have a say about what the rewards will be. It can be an allowance or it can be in the form of something they are permitted to do such as go to a special events (only I would be careful about that one). I would try to keep the rewards along a more consistant bases. Whatever you want to use as a reward for them working to get their points…it should be very much “worth it” to give them incentive to do the work. If it is not “worth it”, then they aren’t going to care about doing the work. Especially in the beginning of this system.....the “goal” must be very valuable to them b/c they have formed some terrible habits and bad behaviors and it will take a conscious effort on their part to not lose all their points and meet their goals. There could be some resistance from the older ones about this. You may want to talk to each of them to decide what they think is valuable to them. What is it they really want to be able to enjoy? How hard are they willing to earn the points to get it? I do not see this a bribing them to be good as some may see it, but I see it as a system to train them and I think it is better than spanking them or grounding them every time they turn around b/c that is a negative type of training. Plus, that is what you would be doing b/c of the negative atmosphere that has been there for this period of time. Of course, there is always the exception when a kid is going to really screw up big time and you will have to ground them or even spank them (which I am a believe in spankings when they are younger).
Antlers - they are hard cases and they have developed some bad behaviors. I have to ground them often, and get onto them often. I'd sure like something to be different. This technique you are telling me about sounds worth trying.
So, it will be their choice if they want a positive outcome by earning their points and receiving their rewards or a negative outcome by losing their rewards and maybe even being grounded if things get too bad. Either way, they need to know that it is “their” choice to make. But, if they choose to be negative about it, it should not be a good thing for them to experience. Not watching TV for a night or using the computer or going to a game……whatever it is they like to do, but make the discipline match the crime! For older kids, especially, they think missing TV one night is no big thing, but take their cell phone away from them and they may drop dead! So, they need to “suffer” the loss of points (or marbles). Obviously, they wouldn’t get the allowance or go do whatever they were working toward, but if there were no points earned at all for that week (or weekend....(whatever the time frame is) or if the points were taken away due to bad behavior, then there should be some type of discipline applied as the result. Just as with rewards, the discipline should be very effective. In other words, it hurts bad enough that it is not worth it to them to be disobedient and to suffer the loss of the points. One more thing about losing points or being grounded, make sure the other kid (who did earn points) doesn't have to suffer along with the one that did not earn his/her points. (Does that make sense?)
Antlers - The choice is theirs whether or not they are rewarded or have a negative outcome. It all makes sense Sandi! Again, it's certainly worth a try.
Kids need a lot of exercise to get rid of too much energy in the body, to get rid of built up aggression, get rid of negative feelings or depression, etc. So having some rigorous activity planned is very helpful and could be a family activity. I read where you like biking. Do your kids go with you too, or is it too advanced?
Antlers - sometimes we go together, but I often ride on my days off while they're at school. We need to start having more rigorous activity together. My son and I shoot baskets out front often. They enjoyed the climbing activities we recently had too!
Having a written out schedule is very important. Sticking to the schedule is most important. The kids know what to expect. And, like before bedtime, tell them it 30 minutes before time for bed in case they need to do anything before going to bed. That gives them a little warning and also mentally prepares the little ones for bed. BTW, make sure baths, etc. are taken before you give them the 30 minute signal.....lol. Also, no sugar sweets or chocolate or pop drinks before bedtime or they won't sleep.
Antlers - We pretty much have set schedules on school nights and they usually do pretty good. Any improvement would be welcome though.
A (certain amount of minutes) before leaving the house is a good rule of thumb to use, especially with girls (lol). Even if everyone is bathed and dressed, just giving them a 15 minute last call before leaving may reduce any stress that could ruin things.
Antlers - They like to put things off until the last minute too! It sure makes it hard when you're on a timeframe.
Talking about giving kids choices.........giving them too many choices is not good, but allowing them to have a choice between two things is okay. You tell them they can wear this or that……they can choose between the two. But, you are the one that narrows it down to which two things they choose from. Maybe some things you would give them three to chose from, but not more or you may be sorry you ever give them a chance....lol.
Antlers - We've given too many choices over the years.
Activities.......you tell them that they can see this movie or that movie……..but you name the two they are allowed to choose from. Same with games, events, and other things they can make choices about. That way, they feel they are being free to choose, but you still have the overall control. Some things, children have no choice and the parent decides b/c they are the adult (like going to school, or not attending parties that would not be age appropriate, or events not adult supervised, etc.) so don’t go overboard and stay balanced. Never allow them to argue with you. If you are not as strict as some parents, you may give them one chance to express their "feelings" in a respectful way (remind them) but they are not allow to argue with your decision. Remeber to speak in a soft, but firm tone of voice.
Antlers - they argue with me all the time. They are hard cases. I've got a job on my hands. I need to always remember to speak in a soft, low, but firm voice.
Well, I worked hard on this, so I hope you will appreciate it even if you chose not to use it. Maybe somebody else will……(lol). I know it is hard being a parent. If I could go back an re-do some things with mine, I certainly would. I believe the point system (or if you want to give it another name....that’s fine) is a very positive way to train children and since you are desperate to find some sort of program that works and teaches the children to show respect and obedience, etc., I thought this may help.
Antlers - I know you worked hard Sandi, and I do appreciate it. It's hard for me being a parent, especially now, and especially after being the way that I used to be for so long. I agree...I think it will help.
Take care, Sandi
P.S. Let me know what you think about it and/if you plan to use it.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
