I have been married for almost 15 years.. got married at 24, wanted to get married and start a family. We had alot of struggles at first financially, infertility, adoption and now some major health issues on my husbands part. I have been on antidepressants for the better half of our marraige, there have been times that depression debilitated me, so I was put on a "maintenance" dose. For at least the last 10 years, except for this last year..my husband was overly involved w/ things on his computer. It wasnt porn or women, it was graphic clubs and gaming and so forth. He totally zoned out when he came home and when we had small children, he escaped downstairs to the computer. I told him several times how i didnt like it and wanted him around us more, but he says he didnt see it as a problem, but now he does. Our sex life was nill, he came to me the fall of last year and said he felt like we had become "business" partners and had no relationship, and wanted to work on it. My first thought was that he was concerned about not having sex, b/c he never cared about us spending time together before. So i agreed to come off my antidepressants for a while to see if I could get an improvement in my sex drive. I did this and we started actively trying to go out and have date night. Then he had a major health episode, cardiac related and he is young (37) he was hospitalized and had a few months at home recovering. Before he got ill, we had been exploring sexual issues and not to get too graphic on here, but I stumbled into a sex chat site as I was looking for something else. It peaked my curiousity, and i got involved slowly. This is something Very out of character for me, but after coming off those antidepressants and having my sex drive return and finding this site, it was all a big rush. He knew I was going on and he knew how much, but soon I was on it more and more, and he didnt like it. As he was recovering from his health issue, I used it as an escape mechanism, i could go on there and dissapear, it was the most wonderful relief I had. I didnt have any problems on there, i was someone else. It finally got to the point where he said he didnt want me to go on anymore, and I said that I would try to cut back but I wasnt ready to just stop, i felt it was a harmless exploration of my sexuality.. these were strangers, i would never know or meet. Resentment built up and he asked again. Finally, I said I needed to go to therapy to try to stay off the antidepressants and I suggested he go also, to help w/ the after affects of his illness. So we are both in individual counseling. Then we decided to go to marraige counseling b/c we could not come to an agreement on the sex chat site. We have been going there for a few weeks. Sorry this is getting long.. The sexual aspect of the website had worn off and i was becoming dependent on it for socialization. I am a stay at home mom w/ two small children, not any friends outside the home and no real activities. I used to work full time before we started a family. He hacked in my computer and got all my passwords and went through my account on there and read emails from people..which Im sure was hurtful.. and i have done some pretty brazen things on there.. but I have never meant it to be to replace him..So now he feels I have had an Affair through the site and has given me an ultimatum to quit. So i did.. two days ago. i deleted the account and unlocked my account on my desktop. I am having a suprisindly difficult time, I have come to realize how lonely I actually am.. I dont understand how you can be surrounded by peopel that you know love you, yet be so incredibly lonely.I am really angry about him hacking all my stuff b/c now i dont even feel i can have an honest email w/ my best friend who is out of state..I get his position.. 10 years ago if i could have hacked into his to see what all he was doing.. i would have done the same.. but i am still angry. We have had some very honest conversations over the past few months.. we had a teenager who we had raised since he was 4 leave to go live w/ his mother after 12 years, just last month. That boy and the little kids occupied so much of my emotional energy.. i havent been able to see that I am not happy. Now, after his health scare, which has made me see we only have one life.. and after the absence of our oldest child.. and the removal of the cloud of antidepressants.. i am able to reflect on where I am in our marraige and in my life. And i am extremely unhappy. I cant quite put my finger on why.. but I think I have been for a long time. For the first time, we have discussed that we fear the possibility of divorce. I have enrolled in college to start this summer and am trying to find more constructive things to do with my time, but I still have this immense feeling of unhappy. Like my life is just passing me by. My concern is that this is actually depression symptoms returning or if I really am this unhappy and get back on the meds.. it will mask it again for years. We are at the beginning of trying to work this out, but I find it so hard to even think about it.. I dont know if I do want to work it out, or if I just need to do somethings for myself, or what my problem is. He says he loves me and just wants me to be happy, and if its over then its over, but he wants us to give it an honest chance. I do too, I am just so overwhelmed w/ confusion and uncertaintity, I dont seem to be able to think straight. So I found here hoping to run across a woman who has been in my shoes..or a man:).. Right now my plan is to try school and try to do more things for myself, and see if that improves my outlook.. so much time has passed between my husband and I where we neglected our feelings and our marriage..Im afraid that I wont be able to recover it..and that makes me so sad I cry everytime I think about it. Thanks for reading my super long story.. look forward to some input. H.
You said: "It finally got to the point where he said he didnt want me to go on anymore, and I said that I would try to cut back but I wasnt ready to just stop, i felt it was a harmless exploration of my sexuality.. these were strangers, i would never know or meet."
And you also said: "He hacked in my computer and got all my passwords and went through my account on there and read emails from people..which Im sure was hurtful.. and i have done some pretty brazen things on there.. but I have never meant it to be to replace him..So now he feels I have had an Affair through the site and has given me an ultimatum to quit."
Honey, I hate to tell you this, but you are having an affair, and possibly multiple affairs. So the first step would seem to be for you to really understand what an affair is. I would call yours "emotional affairs" because you never met these people, but due to the highly sexual charged nature and the multiple people involved, and the fact that you likely were using these people in your mind as you had sex or masterbated, creates something very close to a physical affair, not just emotional. Either way, it is an affair or multiple affairs, and you will have to learn to understand this or else your marriage simply won't make it.
I have been in a similar position. I was in multiple affairs during my marriage that were techically emotional affairs (EA) but included physical aspects, so I know where you are coming from. Like you, I also felt these were not "real" affairs. I was also using these as escapism, like you said. But one thing you did not say, is if you have any addiction issues? I do have them, and I have only recently figured out that I have sexual addiction issues too, and for me, these EA's were driving and feeding my addiction. You may want to explore addiction issues with your counselor to see if this shoe fits.
Regardless though, you need to be able to admit to yourself and to your H that you are involved in adultery. You only stopped the chat room thing 2 days ago, and you need to be prepared for the fact that it might take a couple of months for you to go through the withdrawal of them. Regardless if you have addiction issues or not, you have created an addiction for yourself in the chat room thing and there will be a withdrawal period now. So give yourself lots of time and patience for this to occur. You will continually be tempted to get back on the chat sites or to email with people from there, but if you do so you will be back to square one and have to start the withdrawal all over again.
You may not know for sure if you want to save your marriage until after you've gone through the withdrawal process. Because during withdrawal, you truly cannot think clearly about what you want. Your body and brain will try to trick you into getting back on the chat site in the meantime. This is why you cannot trust your own intentions just yet. After withdrawal is complete, the urge to get on the chat sites will go away, and then you can clearly decide what you want to do in your marriage. Please don't make any decisions about this until withdrawal is complete.
And please do become familiar with what an affair actually is so that you can come to grips with the reality of what you have done in your marriage. This isn't judgment coming from me, its compassion. I've been there. I'm divorced. I'm the poster child for "what not to do".
I dont have any other addictive issues..if i understand what you are talking about. Since I have tried to stop, I realize that it had become more of an "addiction" b/c I do feel like I am having withdrawls of some sort. I am having problems accepting this as affairs... I dont know why... I think b/c i did not set out to have an "affair"..and it is so hard to believe that I would..and I know what my intentions were and they were not to replace him...I know.. i was wrong..but i feel like that is such a small part of what I am dealing w/ and he can only focus on that..i told him that was more of a sypmtom of the bigger problem and he just cant get past it..and i dont know how to help.. b/c i am trying to pick myself back up and get functional.
As far as making any decisions, im not..I want to go to school and start working to see if that will help me personally and that is a long way off.. meanwhile.. we need to acknowledge we are having problems,, which we are.. I just dont know where to start. I do well to get up everday and go through the motions of living.. Thanks for the input.
Well, here's the test as to whether it was an affair or not...
Were your needs getting met by someone other than your H? ANY needs at all? If they were, this is affair behavior.
Would you have written the things on this chat site and on email if your H had been reading right along side of you? In other words, you weren't open with your H about what you were writing about and to whom you were writing, correct? Anytime you feel the need to hide something from H, this is your clue that it was dangerous to the marriage.
It doesn't really matter if you "intended" to hurt him or not. Any sexual talking outside of the marriage will always be cheating, unless somehow your H is right there next to you and is a part of it.
Does that make sense?
So lets say you and H together went to a chat site and together were chatting to strangers, with the purpose of it turning you both on and then you both turn to each other for sex afterwards. Cheating? No. Just spicing things up.
Now lets say you go by yourself onto the computer and engage total strangers in cyber sex via dirty talking, mutual masterbation, etc, and your H "knows you do this" but is not part of it, you don't include him, he is unaware of the actual words being said etc. Cheating? YES.
Do you see this difference?
Sorry but, until you do, there won't be much for you to work on in your marriage.
I'm not saying he hasn't contributed to your marital problems. I'm just saying that until you see what you've been up to for what it was, you won't be able to mend things with him.
Believe me, I've had to look in that mirror too, so I know how hard it is. But once you really just face it, then you can begin to work through it.
HJR...I copied this from one of the articles on this site, just to help you to understand what your H is likely feeling and what you are going to need to do to over come this:
Although some people are more curious than others, it's very common to have lots of questions about the affair, especially initially. If you have little interest in the facts, so be it. However, if you need to know what happened, ask. Although the details may be uncomfortable to hear, just knowing your spouse is willing to "come clean" helps people recover. As the unfaithful spouse, you might feel tremendous remorse and guilt, and prefer avoiding the details entirely, but experience shows that this is a formula for disaster. Sweeping negative feelings and lingering questions under the carpet makes genuine healing unlikely.
Once there is closure on what actually happened, there is typically a need to know why it happened. Betrayed spouses often believe that unless they get to the bottom of things, it could happen again. Unfortunately, since the reasons people stray can be quite complex, the "whys" aren't always crystal clear.
No one "forces" anyone to be unfaithful. Infidelity is a decision, even if doesn't feel that way. If you were unfaithful, it's important to examine why you allowed yourself to do something that could threaten your marriage. Were you satisfying a need to feel attractive? Are you having a mid-life crisis? Did you grow up in a family where infidelity was a way of life? Do you have a sexual addiction?
It's equally important to explore whether your marriage is significantly lacking. Although no marriage is perfect, sometimes people feel so unhappy, they look to others for a stronger emotional or physical connection. They complain of feeling taken for granted, unloved, resentful, or ignored. Sometimes there is a lack of intimacy or sexuality in the marriage.
If unhappiness with your spouse contributed to your decision to have an affair, you need to address your feelings openly and honestly so that together you can make some changes. If open communication is a problem, consider seeking help from a qualified marital therapist or taking a communication skill-building class. There are many available through religious organizations, community colleges and mental health settings.
Another necessary ingredient for rebuilding a marriage involves the willingness of unfaithful spouses to demonstrate sincere regret and remorse. You can't apologize often enough. You need to tell your spouse that you will never commit adultery again. Although, since you are working diligently to repair your relationship, you might think your intentions to be monogamous are obvious, they aren't. Tell your spouse of your plans to take your commitment to your marriage to heart. This will be particularly important during the early stages of recovery when mistrust is rampant.
Ok..I totally get what you are saying..but for some reason.. I am not able to come to the remorse part.. Maybe it is too early.. its not that i feel i had "reason" to do it.. I just dont feel remorseful for my actions other than that it hurt him..i know it makes no sense. b/c it makes none to me.. this is still VERY early on and Im still trying to come to grips w/ not being able to go back there..and we have been very honest in recent discussions..i told him that i have deleted the account and havent been on in a couple of days,, but i still think about it daily and want to go back.. He cant understand it and feels betrayed all over again.. but Im trying to tell him how this has Taken hold of me in some way that I cant explain..so do I be honest about how its affecting me?.. b/c it hurts him when I am..Im unable to get past how I feel to even begin to feel his feelings.. I totally understand the dynamic of it all.. in my rational responsible mind.. and if tables were turned I would probably feel the same..but this has struck something in me that I have NEVER had happen.. i feel out of control w/ it and I have always been in control... never felt unsure of myself.. its very frightening.. We have had some in depth discussions the past few nights.. but I feel that he wants answers from me that I dont have right now.. I told him that going on there relieved whatever lonliness i had.. and it did make me feel like a woman again.. even though it was shallow and false.. just for a few minutes I felt like an actual sexual being again.. which i had not felt in YEARS..I try to tell this to him...and he struggles to understand it..as do I most days..
I am glad i have found this site.. i know i will get alot of good feedback.. from both sides..
We are in counseling.. have been for a month, when we couldnt come to an agreement over the site issue..I dont know if its helping.. i guess it keeps us talking about stuff at least..does marraige counsleing work? We are both in individual counseling also..that has been helpful to me... not sure if he feels his has been helpful..
My biggest issue for myself right now is that it has scared me to death to think I was and am attracted to other men... I am unable to say for sure that I do want to commit to working things out..Im unable to say anything for sure.. other than that I am extrememly unhappy... So he wants me "onboard" and ready to fix things.. and i am struggling w/ my day to day existance.. We are both wondering if i need to go back on the antidepressant, but I really dont want to.. it changed who I was..in several ways.. and i dont want to ignore unhappiness just to get along better..counselor has me seeing shrink in 2 weeks to discuss this.. but it scares me to think of returning to those..it numbs me out to everything...and everything is "OK".. I wont have the drive to return to school.. i wont have the urge to do anything for myself,, not even hair and makeup!!But everybody else will be happy.. Thanks for you advice.. looking forward to more feedback H.
I agree with DQ completely in that you've been having the equivalent of an Emotional Affair (EA), and that it's important to acknowledge that to both yourself and your H. At the same time, it is just as important to understand and begin to address the reasons WHY you were drawn to such a website. One thing from the article that DQ posted for you is absolutely key:
It's equally important to explore whether your marriage is significantly lacking. Although no marriage is perfect, sometimes people feel so unhappy, they look to others for a stronger emotional or physical connection. They complain of feeling taken for granted, unloved, resentful, or ignored. Sometimes there is a lack of intimacy or sexuality in the marriage.
If unhappiness with your spouse contributed to your decision to have an affair, you need to address your feelings openly and honestly so that together you can make some changes. If open communication is a problem, consider seeking help from a qualified marital therapist.....
Very obviously, someting IMPORTANT has been missing in your relationship with your husband, a void that the cybersex chat rooms helped to fill. They made you feel sexy and desireable as a -woman- again for the first time in -years-, in your words. It is VITAL that you explain this to your husband, as much as it may hurt him, and then give him the chance to begin rectifying the situation. He has to understand that --> HE <-- contributed at least 50% to the problem, and that if he wants to repair the marriage, he's going to have to change things about himself -- and not just point the finger of blame at you. It will take time, it will take work with your counselors, but it -can- be done.
You also need to recognize that your husband begins the process of repairing your marriage with a HUGE handicap against him: the fact that you are feeling -numb- towards him and the R is a good indicator that there are YEARS of unfulfilled needs / desires, anger, resetntment, and perhaps even bitterness towards him on your part. He failed to be the man and husband that you wanted and needed, and your negative feelings towards him have piled up inside of you over time until now you feel....nothing...numb. Even if he were to begin doing everything perfectly right today, your relationship with him has so much -baggage- that you wouldn't be able to recognize it or really appreciate it, at least not immediate: it will probably take months to sort through that baggage and to start feeling something towards him again.
BUT, HE DESERVES THAT CHANCE.
Perhaps you brought up issues and complaints with him over the years and he failed to listen. Perhaps you kept it all to yourself and simply let the resentment build up. Either way, rather than addressing the issue directly and seriously with him, "Our marriage is broken, and we need to fix it or else we won't HAVE a marriage any more", you took the -coward's- route and cyber-cheated on him, and sought to have your emotional/sexual needs met by anonymous men with whom you have no resentments or emotional baggage (men who were 'clean slates' that you could fantasize into whatever you wanted them to be).
Yes, your husband is angry and hurt right now, but he has also indicated that HE IS WILLING TO WORK HARD WITH YOU to fix the relationship, go to counseling, read books, do exercises, and make changes. That is a -huge- positive step on his part, and one that many folks here on this board literally yearn for from their own spouses -- who are stuck and won't do anything.
TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT, WHILE YOU CAN.
Finally, there are antidepressants and dosage levels available that -don't- turn you into a happy zombie, and you need to INSIST that you won't allow that to happen to you again. Don't do it just to make other people happy. You DO deserve a fulfulling life and a happy, fulfilling relatioship / marriage, and if that is going to happen with your husband, it will requires some very serious introspection, significant changes, and hard work over many months, on BOTH OF YOUR PARTS, to achieve that.
There are NO shortcuts or quick fixes, but it CAN be done. Read my threads and history if you doubt that.
-- Bagheera
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
I am struggling w/ the "affair" word.. i dont know why.. i think b/c i didnt set out to hurt him or replace him.. and i really didnt notice that i was feeling so detached until i started feeling so much excitement from the attention.. then i wondered why i didnt feel this with him.. and it was because he was not interested in me for years.. He admits it.. and doesnt know why he was like that.. but didnt think at the time he was doing anything harmful..( much like myself).. we are working on it.. its so hard and wierd now.. I feel like a sleezy cheater ...b/c he feels like i am.. and i feel like i cant defend it b/c then he thinks im saying i had a reason to do it..
I have enrolled to go back to college and joined the gym.. i am gonig to work on myself and hope he works on himself.. he has just totally checked out of life in the past 8-10 years.. and hope that as i feel better about myself that i will be able to work w/ him ... Im just afraid b/c there is so little there in my heart for him.. and that is scary after being married so long.. Thank you for the encouragement.. i need all i can get.. i will go and read your history an posts.. THank you h
strangely enough.. i think it took this for him to see that there is a problem.. i have said thing before.. but he took them in passing or as me nagging.. Now he seems ACUTELY aware that there is a problem....
I am struggling w/ the "affair" word.. i dont know why.. i think b/c i didnt set out to hurt him or replace him.. and i really didnt notice that i was feeling so detached until i started feeling so much excitement from the attention...
You keep mentioning that your intention wasn't to hurt your husband or replace him. The bottom line is, you fell into, or got caught up in, the practice of being sexually explicit with, and turned on by the attentions of other men. No it wasn't a full-out physical affair, but emotional affairs are damaging in their own right. Take a read through this blog entry by MWD: “I didn’t mean to have an affair, it just happened.”. Particularly this passage:
The talk becomes more personal. Confessions of marital dissatisfaction bubble to the surface prompting empathy and support. People tell themselves, “I just needed someone to talk to. I wanted input from someone of the opposite sex.” But you don’t need a degree in psychology to know that the implicit message in these conversations is, “I’m unhappily married. Want to fool around?” You can tell yourself that you’re not doing anything wrong, but the truth is, it’s a sheer, slippery slope.
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
