Rough and Ugly Four Months going on LIfe

[Kenn]

And is she ever holding a grudge. She mentioned that it's obvious I am going to the gym and she is really physically attracted to me now BUT...you never did that for ten years so you never loved me. ARGH!!!!

[pearlharbr]

Deep breaths...

Ok, here's a lesson learned from this exchange. Do NOT contact her out of anger/emotion. Let it sit for 24 hours.

Was the ad really a big deal? I understand what it represents to you, but ultimately was it that important that you start a R talk that isn't going to get you anywhere?

All cheaters lie. This we know. Did you really expect her to 'fess up to the affair? Even faced with exact times and locations they met up xBF denied, denied, and denied some more. The more you bring OM up, the more importance you give him. Do not do it unless you have set some boundary that she is breaking.

This is why we told you to let that "in love" text message go. It's driving you crazy and it's really nothing more than an off the cuff comment that doesn't mean anything.

Get back on the detachment wagon. Take your focus off your W and put it back on yourself and your D.

[Kenn]

Yes PH, I think it was. From the start she has acted like I am here if she doesn't like what she is getting out of the seperation. Examples - "I might miss you and want you back" (pre-sep) to last night "I'm not saying I want to get back together but" and "I have a lot of friends out there, they are nice people, you'll meet them all", " I don't think D should go to Disney this year, we can take her next year", "I think we can be friends and do things as a family".

So yes, I did think the ad was a big deal. Even if not to work on our R but my own self esteem. She has to realize that the fantasy of her doing whatever she wants and still having family holidays will end. She said again last night that she thought we could remain friends but understood if I couldn't. And quite frankly I will not stay buddies with a woman who left me for another man. I told her I would always be friendly. I also told her in a very respectful way that this was her decision and because of it we would end up splitting holidays and might as well come up with a schedule.

I told her that I went trough a very long period where I forgot who I was and had lost my self esteem and confidence. She said she saw the changes and didn't understand why I am finally doing it now. I told her that she was right. Looking back I can now see many times she tried to talk to me and hinted around at problems. However when she took her rings off it had such an impact on me. It wasn't until she took her rings off that I took an honest look at myself and didn't like what I saw. I also said that she had been the most important thing in my life and I know that I had hurt her and carry that around with continously. Then I added "but with my confidence and self esteem returning so does my pride and that I am not going to walk around and talk to her like she is not seeing another man. I have my pride and I am not going to pretend anymore that she didn't leave me because of this man. I am not going to continue to play husband or family to a person that is leaving me because of another man.

Who knows. She has her problems and doesn't accept any responsiblity for anything. I often wonder if I am not better off without her. I told her that there is no way I want us to go back to the way we were the last two years, we would have to go forward. But I am not sure she could do that. I miss her and wish we could be together but she is not worth my self esteem or pride (and I don't mean foolish pride, I mean self importance)

I told her last night after she said she was still very attracted to me physically that I thought she was one of the most beautiful women in my world and was so attracted to her that I struggled to be in the same room as her, however I know that there are other attractive women out there and that I didn't want to be with someone who didn't want to be with me also.

I have no doubt that she left me for this other guy and that they have had an affair, even after last night's conversation. I also know that I would forgive her for that and she would need to forgive me for many things just as painful in her mind. But one feeling I did get after last nights conversation is that this guy is not what she thinks she wants long term. That doesn't mean she wants me and I am sure she feels like she wants to break away and find something better. And is scared that any changes I have made will not last.

But no matter what, even if she were to end up married to some guy making a million dollars and living next door to me I need to get a grip that I am just as important as her and she is losing out on a good thing just as much as I am.

This is a crazy situation and you are right it is driving me crazy. But it is not all her. A lot of it is me not understanding what's going on with me, or maybe after all the stuff I have read - I do understand what's going on with me I just don't understand why I can't control it.

And thank you! You and everyone else have been a godsend to me.

[MsMelancoly]

Hey Kenn, It seems like your convo w/your W went ok. You gave her a lot to digest. A good venting session here as well.

Ya know, sometimes it just takes a while to figure out why you are not happy & then a while to make that move & do something about it. That simple. Sometimes we just get caught up in life & forget what is really important. I think the LBS figure that out much quicker than the WAS. Your W is curious & questioning you, so not all that bad. Keep her wondering & stay strong!!

[Kenn]

Thanks MsM,

The conversation helped me a lot. I have not felt that good in awhile. She said a couple of things that were on the positive side but many things on the negative side. That's okay though.

Most likely it is because it gave me a chance to say I was sorry by explaining without saying I'm sorry. If that makes sense.

I will be the first to stand up and say my wife has issues with not accepting resposibility for any of our issues, not appreciating what I brought to the marriage and thinking that romance high is suppose to be there throughout a marriage.

But I will andhave gone on record with my friends that if I look back over the last 3 years...even I would not have wanted to be married to me! I brought every problem home and complained constantly about them, when people didn't listen I got mad at them not me, I let our daughter become more important to me than my wife, I got down on myself and slept away the day or played on the computer for the entire day, we didn'thave sex as much because I was going to bed the same time as my daughter so she would go upstairs (she is afraid of being alone in the house), I was an irritable person, I didn't take control and plan anything, we use to golf together all the time and haven't since my daughter was born, we haven't used our boat since daughter was born....blah, blah, blah,,,,,,, I sucked as a husband for the last 3 years!

Now in fairness, I got up with my daughter for everyday each month except 4 days a month and got her ready for school (8 f these being my days off), I did all the grocery shopping for the last 5 years because my wife could not deal with shopping with my daughter, I went to all the school meetings, doctor appointments, PTA meetings, took daughter to piano and ballet 50% of time so wife could stay at work...all this when wife has 40 hours a year to use for family time (no questions asked). Once when she said we were having problems I went through EAP and got all the information to see a counselor - she had the information, my schedule and hers, all she had to do was make a phone call to set up an appointment. Never did. Said she was too busy. She is a manger for petes sake. Close your dang door and take 15 minutes to make a phone call.......ARGH!

So.... I am not sure whether I really think I am better off with her or whether I am just guilty that I destroyed our marriage, made her miserable for years, and ruined our daughters life.

I know I feel like crap. I learn something everyday that I think will make me a better husband for someone.

I also know I really enjoy the fun times I have with my wife. When we laugh it is like the most content feeling in the world.

But she told me she wants to start over and I would bet you a thousand dollars she wants away from the pressure of having a child with Add as much as she wants away from me. The books say women don't want to be with men that are push overs and weak....but where is the par that men don't want to be women that don't nurter their kids??????

You read all the things I use to do for my wife and daughter. Tell me how many men you know do that much and then explain when she tells me the biggest problem she has is that I worked shift work for so long and forcedher to do all the work taking care of our child... Jeez...I even got a maid for this woman!!!!!!!!! ARGH!!!!!!


Venting ... thanks for reading if you got this far. I am just so frustrated at myself for not understanding earlier. Bummer!!!!!

[Kenn]

Hey MSM,

None of that venting is at you! You have helped me a lot and I really appreciate it!

[MsMelancoly]

Hey Kenn, I know that. Keep venting away - it's good for you. We are all in the same boat here so to speak. You went to bed when your daughter did - I went upstairs with my old sick cat instead of w/my H. Change some parts of the sitch, but still similiar issues.

Did your W give up some control & you took it over (instead of sharing)? Common issue here it seems. From my 1st DBcoaching session the main points were motivating my H's behavior: power & control struggle, attention, revenge & inatiquacy.

I suppose it is true that women don't want a weak man. But when you fall in love, that is sometimes overlooked. Do men want a strong woman?

I haven't been M that long - so I can look back though the stages w/my H and see how my dating, my gf/bf R & how my M w/my H slowly changed. How control & the R slowly shifted. It all comes down to lack of good communication (which includes really listening) & bending towards the others needs sometimes. But instead sometimes we hint instead of really saying what we want. All is a deliciate balance, pleasing yourself and your S.

I think I'm rambling now .....

But you have found & taken control of your happiness, your W seems not to yet. It takes awhile for the WAS. It seems many of the WAW are very angry, hurt & all blaming. Maybe it has to do that we women are more emotional. While the WAH are guilt ridden, angry at themselves & avoidant.

Like I said before - your W has a lot to process. Not just your recent personal changes, but what you said in your convo as well.

Hang on for the ride. BTW - did going to disneyland & riding so many rollercoasters - help you / prepare you for this ride??? (Ok, I'm kinda joking here - sad - yes, but true)

Keep your PMA going!!!

[MsMelancoly]

BTW - Listing all the things you did for your D & W, shopping, appts, meetings, probably have the W (& mothers) on here wanting your number!!! Although the thought pops into my head that your W had a very good personal assistant in you. I realize it wasn't all for your W - but for your D too.

PS. Sometimes I think my H had a good personal assitant in me too, or maybe rephrase that as his mother (in my sitch). Not good.

Rambling again .... for your next convo - buy her a bottle of 50/50 soda LOL (yep - ouch!)

[goingtofixME]

You see this is one of my H's major complaints. He says he no longer feels like I am a spouse to him. I am his mother. How does one get a spouse to see them as a woman they are capable of being intimate with and wanting to have a relationship with again? I never wanted to be someone nagging and complaining. The unfortunate reality that I am learning is I should have never nagged or complained and just did things myself and be more accepting of the things he did do that were not "up to my standards". Sorry to have jacked your thread Kenn.

I wanted to add that I know you list all the things you did and all the things your wife didn't have to do, but coming from a woman who was the sole provider of my family I didn't look at my husband's job at home as being difficult or something that I should be praising him for, but expected him to be thankful that I went out and worked daily. It's all about actions and reactions and how we can change reactions by our actions.

[Kenn]

Sorry to have jacked your thread Kenn.

No worries, you didn't jack my thread. Please realize I have learned more about myself from listening, talking and observing others. The more people the better I will be. Thank you for stopping in

You see this is one of my H's major complaints. He says he no longer feels like I am a spouse to him. I am his mother.

I will say that too many times in the last year (which is whenwe really started to get bad) I walked away thinking my wife was talking to me like a supervisor would. You can substitute mother in there but it is the same. And yes she came off as nagging. But you know what, I never listened to her because I had my perception and it didn't match hers. We never sat down and talked about it.

How does one get a spouse to see them as a woman they are capable of being intimate with and wanting to have a relationship with again? I never wanted to be someone nagging and complaining. The unfortunate reality that I am learning is I should have never nagged

I don't know and feel the same as you. I will say that since this last peacefull conversation that my wife and I had I am now at so much peace. I finally had a chance to explain some and say sorry. Freeing me from some of the quilt helped. I feel like I am in the movie "My cousin Earl" but once I got it off my chest it helped a lot. Unfortunately we could have nver had that conversation even 3 months ago.

...and just did things myself and be more accepting of the things he did do that were not "up to my standards".

I am not sure about this. I will share that my wife always hated that I worked shift work. She felt that I had all these days off and instead of doing what I wanted I should be doing more around the house. The entire marriage I got to a point that I started to ignore her because I wasn't hearing I am lonely - I was hearing a petty jealously about me having more free time off without our daughter around. To this day I will still say that and she has even admitted a little in our conversations that she resented me having the time off. Now! the problem...since our sep I have become friends with two women who are married. One day I am talking to one about my issues and she starts to talk about her problem with her husband now that she works, "It drives me crazy that I work every day and I come home knowing he has had the entire day off but hasn't done anything, not cleaned the bathroom like he said he would, no laundry no nothing......etc" WOW! She used the exact same workd my wife used. It was like I was having dejevu. My other friend said same thing when I brought it up. Man! It wasn't until that conversation that I realized that it doens't matter who is right or wrong you have to deal with the perception. The perception can hurt even more than the truth because only one side takes it serious.

She asked me what she should do and I told her that he does clean the bathroom. Just not to her standard. Instead of splitting up the work they needed to first agree on the standard like how often and how clean. If she couldn't accept his standard then she should have taken the bathroom and let him take something else. another thing about days off. Good guys will play on the computer then because they don't play on it when the wife is home. If that's the case aren't you better off?[/quote]

I wanted to add that I know you list all the things you did and all the things your wife didn't have to do, but coming from a woman who was the sole provider

My situation we both worked just she made more money than me which now is one of her complaints. She paid the mortgage an says she wants a man that can be the provider. She conviently forgets I left a 110k job to let her pursue her career promotion. My take family income is family income...not who make more. Obviously this is an issue for her. Funny thing is i read His Needs/Her Needs and this is one of the five things that the author says women need? I should have read that years ago..or gotten of my lazy butt and tried to better my job instead of resenting her resentment of me ARGH! [/quote]

of my family I didn't look at my husband's job at home as being difficult or something that I should be praising him for, but expected him to be thankful that I went out and worked daily. It's all about actions and reactions and how we can change reactions by our actions.

I don't mean to be rude here because we all have our demons. This is the same line you would hear from the housewives of the 50s-70s. I will go political here but the worst thing capitalism does in America is devalue the American housewife or house husband. These people work harder than anyone in world but because they do not get paid, no one places a value on their postion. If you came home and competed a major project at work you would expect a loving spouse to say congrats and I am proud of you. But the stay at home spouse is always taken for granted because they don't bring in an income but probaly more work.

Too many of my co workers take their wives for granted. Wives work their buts off so a man can go to work but watch what happens in a divorce when the wife asks for half the retirement. They go beserk (least the jerks do) and say, "why she didn't earn any of it".

But like I say, I worked and we even got a maid when my wife felt overwelmed. Problem with us is we maintiained seperate finances and paid for different things. Everything she paid for you can touch. Everything I paid for was pretty much a consumable (food, tires, maid, child care) and is gone. Her version now ...she paid for anything and I hid my money??????? [/quote]

sorry more venting. you know the funny thing about it is once she said if she made site leader I should just be a stay at home dad. I told her she was crazy and I had too much pride for that. She then said her friends husband did it and didn't understand the pride thing.....now she has left me because she doens't want to be the main provider of a family....looney toons is my theme....LOL!