Yes, that's my understanding as well, both from online research and from my meetings with my atty two years ago. Thanks for the links to the articles -- you're the best!
What I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around (and I KNOW my wife is having a hard time) is getting away from this "Puppy gets the bills, and he pays everything" to this negotiated agreement of "you keep what you make and take YOUR bills with you, I keep what I make and take MY bills with you, then I send you a net check each month of $X,XXX for child support, and we agree on a monthly spousal support (alimony) amount of $X/month, which for now is going to be in the form of my continuing to make the mortgage & utility payments on the house."
I'm guessing you've already seen the worksheet, but being a resident of your state, I feel compelled to comment on my process...just a little! Hope you don't mind!!
The only things that actually go into the the CS equation are your income, her income, daycare expenses (which aren't an issue in your case), and health insurance for minor children. You can also use court ordered CS paid by you for another minor child of a previous marriage (but, since you don't have that...not an issue). The CS is based on the lifestyle that the children could have had you not split. To be honest, her income is a small portion of the equation! You can get a reduction in CS if the kids stay with you more of the time (when we started the process it was something like more than every other weekend and 6 weeks in the summer). But, "staying" means overnight visits to your place of residence. We ran into that because my STBXH keeps the boys on Wednesday nights putting him over the limit. However, legally, she has no right to ask for additional money to cover rent, etc. for the kids. She's supposed to cover all additional expenses for the minor children from the calculated amount.
As for alimony...we didn't deal with that. Neither of us was bound to pay that legally. But, we worked out our own division of assets agreement. I kept the house equity, he got the truck, etc., etc., etc. We laid it all out and took it to my attorney (we only used one). She drew it up into a legal document and we signed and sent it to the judge. Apparently, since it's uncontested, we don't even have to appear in court. The judge will sign and we'll be done! I'm in the panhandle, so, don't know about your county.
I think OT is saying you should go ahead and split the debts when you separate...no more joint credit cards, checking accounts, etc. just for your own protection. Most credit cards won't let you change the name. I did have one that was an individual account and they let me drop him as a user. The others I had to cancel. If you carry a balance, the only way out is to transfer the balance to another card in the name you want to use.
I'll be glad to help with anything else you can think of. I'd even send you my documents so you can see what we included...if I knew how to find you!
Good luck! Amy
Me 39 H 36 S 7 S 4 T 15 M 12 H out 8/1/08 OW confirmed 8/6/08 D final on 6/12/09...I'm doing good!
I think the credit card debt may also depend on the issuer of the card. One really big bank that has been in the new alot, said he would need to qualify to carry the balance on his own. Others said if he would consent to become the primary and take me off that would work. Just work with each issuer, the sooner the better.
kat
Me-53(and learning!) S24, S21, D18, D17 Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
I did the lump sum alimony buyout like oldtimer mentions. Since I booted her from the house early on, I kept the house and refinanced it to payoff the division of assets and spousal support buyout.
I could have won in court since OM was supporting her just fine, but there was too much risk and I did not want to be making possibly bigger alimonly payouts monthly. As it stands now, my house payment only went up around $200 a month as opposed to the $1200 montly they were asking for spousal support.
One advantage of monthly alimony is that you can deduct from your taxes. The disadvantage to your XW will be that she has to pay tax on it.
When it comes time to haggle over the financial aspect, I highly recommend that both of you think about a mediator that can also draft up the divorce judgment. The mediator can give a good idea to both of you how it would go down if you got two lawyers involved.
Make sure you get in writting who is responsible financially for the current extracurricular activities the kids are doing now.
Also, if you make considerably more than your STBXW, it would benefit you more to claim the kids as a deduction/tax credit until your STBXW can increase her income.
The only things that actually go into the the CS equation are your income, her income, daycare expenses (which aren't an issue in your case), and health insurance for minor children. You can also use court ordered CS paid by you for another minor child of a previous marriage (but, since you don't have that...not an issue). The CS is based on the lifestyle that the children could have had you not split. To be honest, her income is a small portion of the equation! You can get a reduction in CS if the kids stay with you more of the time (when we started the process it was something like more than every other weekend and 6 weeks in the summer). But, "staying" means overnight visits to your place of residence. We ran into that because my STBXH keeps the boys on Wednesday nights putting him over the limit. However, legally, she has no right to ask for additional money to cover rent, etc. for the kids. She's supposed to cover all additional expenses for the minor children from the calculated amount.
Mind??? Heck, I'm GRATEFUL!! Thanks!
In in the alt universe, under the name of a former radioactive rock star (no "d") who hangs around with some bad company when he's not fronting for Queen.
Here in the Jacksonville area of FL, the family courts may be slightly different, but you kwim. . .
What I still don't know how to calculate is that IF we can't sell the house for quite awhile, what is an equitable allocation of its monthly costs, and what am I allowed to "count" that toward?
I would really like to do as Oldtimer said, and just come up with a monthly amount of "$X", which includes the mandated child support and it includes an agreed-upon amount of spousal support. But the house throws a wrench into all of that. I'm almost certain that I can count the mortgage and utilities and taxes and insurance for the house as "spousal support," if I continue to pay it until such time as we can sell it, but I don't want that amount (which is more than $4k/mo.!) to set a precedent as a monthly alimony amount, kwim???
I think the credit card debt may also depend on the issuer of the card. One really big bank that has been in the new alot, said he would need to qualify to carry the balance on his own. Others said if he would consent to become the primary and take me off that would work. Just work with each issuer, the sooner the better.
The debts will be split up and there will be no joint debts after the divorce. Open accounts usually are closed and re-issued to the person responsible for the debt. That will be one of you - not both. Any cash or disposable assets you have you can kiss goodbye. They will be liquidated to pay as much debt as possible. Outstanding debt responsibility is 50/50. Only regular joint debts will be the house and the terms of that as far as equity and value will be determined and one party will owe the other their portion. Each party is entitled to 50% including contents. The retaining party will have a set time to pay the other unless you/they agree to different and the judge accepts it. House sold when kids 18 and proceeds split is one option. If that is done morgage cost and insurance and all that will be figured into a support settlement.
Rent/mortgage isn't singled out as a CS expense. Pump in the incomes, child care expenses, and out pops a figure from the CS calculator. In that calculation is a figured percentage/calculated amount that is considered to be for shelter expences. If CS plus mortgage plus debt responsibility plus SS is more than the intake than tough choices will have to be made. Usually it means selling the house and downsizing.
The older children have no bearing on CS. Whatever you give them is a gift and not considered an expense or used in any support calculation.
Don't volunteer lifetime alimony - make a judge order it. Lifetime alimony is becoming less common.
Do you have a retirement plan ? She's entitled to half of the current value. Your entitled to half hers also - if she has any. This area can and usually is a negotiation area. You take on more of the debt in return for keeping your retirement instead of cashing half of it out and giving it to her. If you've got any stocks or securities accumilated during the marriage half are hers.
Even if your making $ 200 G, expect to be pretty poor/cash strapped until at least the youngest hits 18.
P.S. - keep an eye on your credit accounts. Anything she charges your responsible for half until the signed agreement. If she decides she needs a new convertible, you will likely be responsible for half of it. If possible, put a freeze on as many accounts as possible. Close whatever you can. Open new accounts with just one of you on it.
We are using a mediator -- the best one in our area, and one of the best in our state. I'm hoping he can keep us on track. I learned enough from my last go-around (I filed, contested, going for full custody due to her infidelity) to feel fairly comfortable, and if she starts fighting me on stuff I have my guy still on the side for a consult if need be. What I DON'T want her to do is retain the counsel she did last time, as "a", she's a bulldog, and "b", she's expensive and I'd end up paying for her.
I'm glad you mentioned the tax deductions -- we need to account for who gets those (me!).
Again, my challenge is that I'm really looking at some sort of a "2-staged" agreement here: one for NOW, while we still have a $4k/mo. house noose around our necks, and one for after it's sold, and I can just pay her some flat monthly amount in spousal support, for some finite period of time (I'm proposing 10 years).
MUCH more later tonite, when I have more time to dig into this as there's SO much meat in here (THANK YOU!!). But for now, I wanted to single out:
Originally Posted By: Stillhope
Rent/mortgage isn't singled out as a CS expense. Pump in the incomes, child care expenses, and out pops a figure from the CS calculator. In that calculation is a figured percentage/calculated amount that is considered to be for shelter expences. If CS plus mortgage plus debt responsibility plus SS is more than the intake than tough choices will have to be made. Usually it means selling the house and downsizing.
This will absolutely calculate out to "more than I can pay," and to make it worse, you can't SELL a house right now, so what to do then??
Is it reasonable for me to base my calculations (and my expectations) based upon my wife increasing to full-time employment (imputing full-time income to her)?
We'd really like to keep the house until such time as the market rebounds at least somewhat, so that "a" the boys can stay in it, and "b" we need the equity out of it to pay off these debts, so we can each start our new lives over debt-free.
HOW DO I CALCULATE THIS??? For the sake of argument, figure:
- $2k/mo. in child support (last time I ran the State calculator, it was very close to that)
- 24 year marriage
- wife is SAHM for nearly the entire marriage; only worked part-time otherwise
- $4k/mo. in PITI on the house.
- I net $10k/month in income - W nets 400/month in income
- $1500/mo. in debt service; $500 in her name and $1000 in mine or joint
