I think that was well said. Why go out of your way to be mean right out of the gate, though I am sure she won't get the "her" debt part. keep yur focus as you said on the kids and yourself. Try to not get drawn into her fantasy of what she is truly asking for.
kat
Me-53(and learning!) S24, S21, D18, D17 Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
I disagree; I think she'll go RIGHT for her parts.
Remember on the old "Bill Cosby Show," when Felicia Rashad would start talking in Spanish, and Bill Cosby would say "I just listen for my name"??
Well, that will be Mrs. Puppy, when she reads this. She'll skip right over everything that I pour my heart and head out about, and go right to "what do you mean, you won't be able to give me an alimony check right away???"
Or
"I can't believe you don't want to have dinner with the boys at our house."
"We did agree to no OW/OM around our kids for a period of time (6 months to a year -- yet to be ironed out), so I don't think that will be an issue."
Don't count on it and probably not legally enforceable, and you probably should not try to make it legally enforceable either. (Just more of the same from you w.r.t. your focus on her Rs with OM,)
BTW, my understanding is that child support also is used to pay rent/mortgage.
I don't see why you would be continuing to pay the same proportion of joint debts and expenses if you get your own household. For that matter, there really should not be any joint debt or expenses. The only thing that should be your business in her finances is how much you have to write the checks for, and same with her. And, try to make the required amounts as minimal as possible. You can always choose to be more generous. But trying to do less than is legally required will get you in trouble.
As for "too nice," who cares. You were civil, that's fine. What I would say is "way too much information." You are showing your hand, showing her what to worry about, getting her guard up, putting yourself at a disadvantage. Talk D with the mediator and your L. Keep it business, address it in the appropriate setting.
Right now, you sound like you are both trying again to make her "get it" and to protect her, neither of which is good in terms of your interests at this point. Trust me, she will look out for herself. What you need to do is to protect yourself, get the best deal you can, and get out.
You keep saying that the D is mutual, and that's why you don't object to moving out, but I wonder, was it really mutual? Did she give you a reasonable alternative? I feel like she's convinced you that this is mutual, but the reality is that she's unwilling to truly be your W. That just doesn't sound mutual to me. It sounds like you saying she's either your W or not, nothing in the middle. I'm sure you know that marriage, as created by God, is meant to illustrate our relationship with Him. There's nothing in the middle for God--he prefer hot or cold, and spits lukewarm out of his mouth (Revelations 3:16). Your W is that same lukewarm--you are now spitting her out of your mouth. But I don't think the D is mutual, I think she made it come to this, so you should make her take the brunt of the consequences. I know you fought hard for your M, so I don't feel it's right for you to now act as if the D is a mutually reached upon decision. Yes, you may now be the one calling for it, but not because you didn't want the marriage, b/c SHE didn't want it.
"We did agree to no OW/OM around our kids for a period of time (6 months to a year -- yet to be ironed out), so I don't think that will be an issue."
Don't count on it and probably not legally enforceable, and you probably should not try to make it legally enforceable either. (Just more of the same from you w.r.t. your focus on her Rs with OM,)
OT,
Why do you keep saying this?? I was merely responding to what YOU said about OM -- I didn't bring it up, you did. I was pointing out that we agreed not to do this, and I do think she'll abide by it, even if it's for all the wrong reasons. Remember, to a narcissist, IMAGE is EVERYTHING.
And, last time, my L did tell me that this was not legally enforceable, but "worth a shot" to put it in there.
Quote:
BTW, my understanding is that child support also is used to pay rent/mortgage.
Really? I need to learn more about this. Florida has an online CS calculator that you can use, to plug in each spouse's income, and other details, and then it gives you the amount. But I'm unclear as to what I can all COUNT towards that amount. For example, how do I factor in what I currently pay in support of the non-minor GIRLS (books, auto insurance, cellphone, food)? We have an agreement with them that as long as they stay in college, as full-time students, we help with these expenses. Well, the CS calculations only speak to the two MINOR children still living in the house, but I'm paying 100% of this stuff to our daughters.
Quote:
I don't see why you would be continuing to pay the same proportion of joint debts and expenses if you get your own household. For that matter, there really should not be any joint debt or expenses. The only thing that should be your business in her finances is how much you have to write the checks for, and same with her.
You lost me here. They are JOINT expenses and debts (let's use jointly-acquired credit card debt for an example). We incurred them jointly, as a married couple. If they're not paid off at the time of divorce (and they won't be), they become JOINT responsibility, do they not? So the only question is, in what PROPORTION? 50/50 wouldn't be fair if I make $200k a year and she makes $10k, or even if we impute $20k or $25k to her. I AM going to have a stip that any tax refunds or proceeds from the eventual sale of the house go 100% to paying down these old joint debts.
Quote:
Right now, you sound like you are both trying again to make her "get it" and to protect her, neither of which is good in terms of your interests at this point. Trust me, she will look out for herself. What you need to do is to protect yourself, get the best deal you can, and get out.
I'm sure I am. She has NO CLUE about this stuff, and if I don't help explain it to her, and keep her comfortable with the process, then she's going to want to hire her own atty and GUESS WHO gets to pay for that? Her last retainer was $3,500, and since we ended up reconciling, I made her pay that back 100% (she borrowed it from her OM ), but my atty advised me that it was near-100% certainty that I would end up paying her legal fees as part of any settlement. The atty she retained last time is a bulldog, a former prosecuting atty who specializes in dealing with women. She's very well-connected. It's in my own self-interest to make sure she is NOT retained.
You keep saying that the D is mutual, and that's why you don't object to moving out, but I wonder, was it really mutual? Did she give you a reasonable alternative? I feel like she's convinced you that this is mutual, but the reality is that she's unwilling to truly be your W. That just doesn't sound mutual to me. It sounds like you saying she's either your W or not, nothing in the middle. I'm sure you know that marriage, as created by God, is meant to illustrate our relationship with Him. There's nothing in the middle for God--he prefer hot or cold, and spits lukewarm out of his mouth (Revelations 3:16). Your W is that same lukewarm--you are now spitting her out of your mouth. But I don't think the D is mutual, I think she made it come to this, so you should make her take the brunt of the consequences. I know you fought hard for your M, so I don't feel it's right for you to now act as if the D is a mutually reached upon decision. Yes, you may now be the one calling for it, but not because you didn't want the marriage, b/c SHE didn't want it.
Just my opinion.
WP
I understand what you're saying, WP, but we're talking semantics here. I'm saying that if it's a given that a marriage to her is the way that it is (and with 24 years under my belt now, I have my eyes wide open as to what it is -- and isn't), then I want out too.
She probably did push me off the dime, starting with her affair and then continuing thru her lack of any real effort at healing, as I was being complacent, lazy and comfortable (but deep down, unhappy and unfulfilled) in the SSM.
I wanted the marriage with someone she was not. I'm trying to deal with reality now.
Not only would I have to pay HER atty's fees, but in Florida, ours is considered a "long-term marriage," and I'm staring down the barrel at PERMANENT alimony, without question. Unless I can get her to agree otherwise.
I'm offering "rehabilitative" (term) alimony, for a period of 10 years, in an amount TBD.
So again, if this goes the "contested", get-the-attorneys-involved route, I stand to do a LOT worse.
), but my atty advised me that it was near-100% certainty that I would end up paying her legal fees as part of any settlement. The atty she retained last time is a bulldog, a former prosecuting atty who specializes in dealing with women. She's very well-connected. It's in my own self-interest to make sure she is NOT retained.