Thank you for jumping in here rob. I absolutely 110% agree with your reasoning. That is what has been frustrating through all of this. She has many of these ideas about things where you shouldn't have to come out and state directly what the problem is. I don't understand this logic, just seems like a way for her to justify not having to communicate.
I am a little nervous because she just called and asked if we could meet at a little restaurant at 7:30 tonight, just to hang out. I certainly don't want to bring up the relationship talk, but I would like to be with her for little moments like this. I plan to be strong and comfortable for the visit, I just have to do some mental work between now and then.
The Dr. appointment yeserday seemed to go well yesterday. I explained my side of the situation to the dr. and we are trying some things to help with the wandering mind and anxiety. Before leaving, the dr. told me that I really need to try and find a way to get my wife in for help. She feels that my wife is suffering from underlying depression. She feels that the unhappiness is in her life, although she is blaming it on the marriage. I told her that there is no way in hell that I could tell my W that, she would rip my head off. She understood and suggested that I use one of her friends or mother. Not sure if I should let this one be or pursue it.
M 30 WAW 29 T 15 M 5 ILYBNILWY 3/8/09 Separated 3/14/09
[quote=dburt]...She started it by saying "Lets go out tomorrow night because I know you wanted to get together". I told her that I didn't mind either way and that we can go out only if it is what she wants. She said that she want to go out, so I said ok and left it there. She said that she will call me back to finalize the plans.
OK, I'm going to point out another behavior that you have to change (and yes it's a male behavior that you have to change). When you say you don't mind either way, it's another way of saying "it doesn't matter to me" as long as you like it.
That's approval seeking, subconsciously that shows insecurity.
The new attitude you will have going forward is... "IT DOES MATTER TO ME"
This attitude is going to apply to going out with her or when you're by yourself or with friends. When you're shopping for yourself, when you're buying food, when you're taking a drive somewhere, when someone asks your opinion.
It does matter to you.
Let me explain another reason why. Being an attractive man to women and specifically to your wife means being dominant & "manly" (I know it sounds stupid but it really isn't).
You want to be someone who shows leadership skills, takes the lead, has a plan, knows where he is going in life. It shows you're confident, dominant (dominant in a secure, confident way). When you say it doesn't matter to you or you don't mind either way, it shows a lack of leadership skills, women are attracted to men who take the lead, have a plan, know where they're going - it makes them feel secure and takes the pressure off of them to lead and plan as much.
It's an attractive quality to possess and an easy change to make on your end. Catch yourself when you're about to say "it doesn't matter to me" and "I don't mind either way". It does matter to you, you mind because the choice is important to you.
It shows that you are self-assured, have a purpose, confident, ambitious, etc. These are all things that women are attracted to and I'm guessing by the one statement above that it may be a regular thing that comes out of your mouth. It's ok because you know better now and this is about tweaking your behaviors and making you look more attractive to your wife and more importantlyl feel better about yourself.
You wouldn't think a small detail like this matters but think about this, your wife has told you in some form or fashion that she has been dropping off subtle clue & hints about her being unhappy for a long period of time and she would have noticed these small clues, time to drop some subtle hints of your own because apparently she will notice.
That makes sense to me Rob. No more wishy washy nonsense. I do know what I want, but I didn't want to sound controlling or pushy to her.
I just called her back and told her that I will come pick her up this afternoon and we can go to this place down on the bay. She accepted and said that she will call me back with what time to pick her up.
Do I treat this as a date where I am a gentleman (opening doors, etc...)? Do I treat this as a night out with just a friend?
M 30 WAW 29 T 15 M 5 ILYBNILWY 3/8/09 Separated 3/14/09
Thank you for jumping in here rob. I absolutely 110% agree with your reasoning. That is what has been frustrating through all of this. She has many of these ideas about things where you shouldn't have to come out and state directly what the problem is. I don't understand this logic, just seems like a way for her to justify not having to communicate.
I am a little nervous because she just called and asked if we could meet at a little restaurant at 7:30 tonight, just to hang out. I certainly don't want to bring up the relationship talk, but I would like to be with her for little moments like this. I plan to be strong and comfortable for the visit, I just have to do some mental work between now and then.
The Dr. appointment yeserday seemed to go well yesterday. I explained my side of the situation to the dr. and we are trying some things to help with the wandering mind and anxiety. Before leaving, the dr. told me that I really need to try and find a way to get my wife in for help. She feels that my wife is suffering from underlying depression. She feels that the unhappiness is in her life, although she is blaming it on the marriage. I told her that there is no way in hell that I could tell my W that, she would rip my head off. She understood and suggested that I use one of her friends or mother. Not sure if I should let this one be or pursue it.
Well couple things:
- did you just jump at the idea that she offered to go out. I mean it's good that she asks you, I like that, let her continue doing that, it isn't a bad thing. - when she asks if you want to go out and say she asked you last weekend if you were free on thursday, tell her that you like the idea but you would check to see if you were free that night because you might have something scheduled with some friends. Don't reveal all details just be a bit mysterious and that you will get back to her so that if you can't make it, she can at least make other plans. This shows that you're not needy, it shows you're not insecure, that you're not grovelling for every chance to be with her - this will throw her thought process for a loop. - also ask her to come up with a few different ideas on where to go for dinner and you'll come up with a few of your own. The idea is this, you want to make this fun and try some place new, you also don't want to say stuff like, whatever you like, it doesn't matter where we go... remember, IT DOES MATTER - stop all relationship talk, when you go out for coffee, out to eat at a restaurant, act as if you're friends, don't go for the hug & kiss unless she offers it, be totally fine enjoying each other's time
I think people who are so hard up to get their spouse back and focus on relationship CPR and dramatic repair of whatever is broken forget that when they first start seeing their spouse before they got married, etc. They went out because it was nice to see them, they had fun together, you never talked about the relationship, you just talked about stuff, had fun, were funny (which is so important, if you haven't been a comedian lately, time to brush up on the skill). You have to show you are a fun guy, and that you are a fun time which means no pressure, no talks of relationships, counselling and past relationship problems. Put all of that crap on a shelf and stop talking about it. If she brings up issues that she wants to talk about: validate her, listen, don't offer solutions. Don't let her beat you up, remember be a man, stand up for yourself, set rules & boundaries, show that you respect yourself and don't get angry, always remain calm & poised: grace under pressure. Be the strong wall, if she takes punches at it and tries to knock you down, show her that you can stand strong. If she gets crabby & bitchy, just tell her that you want to keep things friendly & enjoy the time together but if she can't do that, maybe you guys can meet up another time when she feels like being nicer. Never reward her bratty behavior with your attention and let her know that.
Robx, great advice. This was an issue for me that I have changed and still catch myself from time to time. I make the plans now, and I never say I do not care, if I ask what she wants to do, and she says she doesn't care, I have a plan right after. I thought I was being considerate and nice, but she found it wimpy and non masculine.
Also, you said that women usually win arguments. I remember my wife complaining that after the bomb, she said that I always turned the argument around against her to make it sound like what she was doing was selfish, irresponsible and stupid. I told her that in 20 years together I had never ever won any argument until now, I told her maybe that her losing the recent arguments shows just how wrong she was.
I told my wife for this Friday, that we are going to the club for dinner and to listen to the band they are going to have there. I asked her if that sounds good. She said yes it does, I said great be ready by 6.
That makes sense to me Rob. No more wishy washy nonsense. I do know what I want, but I didn't want to sound controlling or pushy to her.
I just called her back and told her that I will come pick her up this afternoon and we can go to this place down on the bay. She accepted and said that she will call me back with what time to pick her up.
Do I treat this as a date where I am a gentleman (opening doors, etc...)? Do I treat this as a night out with just a friend?
Treat it as a couple of friends going out, you have this date mentality on the brain and that leads to pressure for you and for her. Just hang out and have fun.
However, I think women do tend to like feeling special and as such, it's always good manners to open a door for a lady, remember you're a man and you're not doing it just to make her feel good, you do those things because YOU want to do them. When its because you want to do them for you and not for her, it's genuine, it's not needy & insecure, you're not supplicating her, you aren't grovelling for affection, you're just being you and having a good time.
Controlling is telling her what to do and telling her that your needs are more important than hers.
Manipulating her is buying stuff for her so that she'll like/love you, women are too smart for this and they can tell this behavior for what it is and they don't like it.
You control what you do and you can't control what she does and just remember that ALWAYS.
Robx, great advice. This was an issue for me that I have changed and still catch myself from time to time. I make the plans now, and I never say I do not care, if I ask what she wants to do, and she says she doesn't care, I have a plan right after. I thought I was being considerate and nice, but she found it wimpy and non masculine.
Also, you said that women usually win arguments. I remember my wife complaining that after the bomb, she said that I always turned the argument around against her to make it sound like what she was doing was selfish, irresponsible and stupid. I told her that in 20 years together I had never ever won any argument until now, I told her maybe that her losing the recent arguments shows just how wrong she was.
I told my wife for this Friday, that we are going to the club for dinner and to listen to the band they are going to have there. I asked her if that sounds good. She said yes it does, I said great be ready by 6.
Women like that a bunch.
Burt
Hey Burt, I would have taken that even one step further, instead of asking her if that sounds good, I would have told her "We will have a good time, I think it will be fun" instead of asking her if that sounds good.
I think sometimes when we ask them for their opinion on too many things, it shows that we're indecisive, insecure and aren't confident to make decisions and subconsciously they may read that as being insecure and not confident. Don't get me wrong, asking for input is great but make it known that it does make a difference to you where you guys go, "it doesn't matter" doesn't really work well (at all).
Not feeling very good this evening. She called and cancelled at the last minute for a work function. Then she said "I don't want it to look like I am putting work in front of us."
I will try and type more later, when my emotions settle down.
Thanks,
M 30 WAW 29 T 15 M 5 ILYBNILWY 3/8/09 Separated 3/14/09
No big deal, her loss, let it go, she looks like she is controlling everything, you have to get back in control, and some of these techniques that are being taught can really help!
