Holding onto Hope

[In Limbo]

Sandi2,
I can't really write at the moment, but wanted to just say how much reading your post has meant to me on this night. I will explain more tomorrow when I have time to write. You hit on so many important points and I want to address all your questions too. I'll check out the other post you mentioned as well tomorrow. The books came in the mail today, but since I spent the day with H, I haven't even opened the box. I'll start on them Monday when he is out of the house. It feels wonderful to have this network and I'm confident that whether he goes or stays in the end, I'll be a much better person from these principles and the suppport you're offering. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[In Limbo]

Sandi2,
Thanks for your posting. I am amazed by how much you give to others on this site. What a blessing you are. I hope you had a wonderful Easter weekend. I'm going to try to respond to your questions and suggestions and also give you an update on my sitch.
I am definitely keeping all of my tools to myself. I use my work-issued laptop only which is password protected and also protected from downloads of any types of software. Good tips.
Funny you should mention the MLC. I have wondered for a while if this is what H is going through. He lost his dad fairly early (H was 20, his dad was 41) and so I think approaching 40 is even tougher because of that. We were out on a date this weekend and he actually brought the topic up. He asked what I thought, did I think he was MLC. I told him that I did think he showed many of the symptoms (EA, wants a Porsche, recently changed jobs, LYBNILWY, separation, etc.). I didn't say it accusingly. He asked if I had read any info on the topic and I said that I researched it after we had spoken Monday and he first brought it up. He asked me to send him the info so I did today. He called me after he received it and said he was amazed how much it sounded like him. I'm not sure, but I think this is a very positive thing that he's at least seeking information and doing a self-evaluation. What do you think?

if he will not tell this OW that things are over then that means he is still wanting to cling to her and what she does for him emotionally

He told me that she emailed him Thursday and asked him if I had told him our M was over if he continued to talk with her. He said he told her yes and hasn't heard from her since and doesn't expect to. I would have preferred a "don't contact me again - ever" but will take what I can get.

I did not understand why he sees her in groups where you are not invited……..if he changed jobs. Can you explain that a little better, please?

He and the ladies and one guy at his last job that hung out together were extremely close (that environment was VERY bad for our M). I was never invited to go out with them. After his EA was confirmed, he had two additional social occaisions with the group and even though two of the ladies invited me to one of them, he flat out told me that I was not welcome. He did not want me to be around OW and was not ready to make a statement that we were together or something. I think he was worried that the tension between me and OW would be noticed by others (nobody else knew) and also OW is too fragile and would freak out. I really didn't care about any of that and was almost as hurt by the exclusion as I was by the discovery of the EA. We talked at length about our feelings but he was not budging. That was over 2 weeks ago but in some ways seems like a lifetime ago.

Can you tell us why he left the house if he was going to break off the EA?

Tonight I may give you a run for the money with the length of this post. Let me try to give a brief summary of years of M history. We met at 17 and never dated anyone else. M at 24. Serious problems in M began to surface after 1st S born 11 years ago. Lots of different reasons on both sides, but the root I think goes back to poor communication and conflict resolution skills. I was always the more responsible one and he was the fun party guy. Kids just seemed to widen that gap and resentment grew on both parts. Three years ago I came to the end of my rope and when he wouldn't go to counseling, I filed for D. I know it sounds crazy, but I never really wanted a D, I wanted to shock him into working on our M. We ended up reconciling and I thought things were gong well. Then a year later (on Easter), he told me that he didn't love me anymore. I had promised when we reconciled that I was in the M forever and stuck by that. He never left and we basically just "got by" the past two years. Over the past year he has been staying out more and more, distanced himself from the kids and me and increased his alcohol intake. About 6 months ago I began to feel in my gut that if he wasn't cheating, it was only a matter of time. Around Christmas, things really took a turn for the worse and he emailed me that we had been separated for so long emotionally that should just "make it legal." I told him that if that was what he wanted, to proceed. I was not going to be the one to do it. Around that same time he began to spend every moment at home on the computer or on his blackberry texting and was very secretive about it. Then out of the blue in February he comes home from a concert he went to without me with the "gang" from work drunk as a skunk and held me like there was no tomorrow and told me he did still love me and never stopped but hadn't known how to tell me when things were still so bad between us. The next day he reiterated every thing so that I would know it wasn't just the booze talking. At that point, I was REALLY confused.
A month later when I confirmed the EA and we really began talking, he said he still wanted to separate so that he could figure out what's going on in his head. We have talked more in the past month than in the past year. He is confused. He says he is so detached that he doesn't think he can even want to work on the marriage. He still loves me, but NIL and doesn't want us to waste more time on something that can't work but at the same time doesn't want to be that guy that leaves his wife, gets the Porsche and the younger babe and then realizes what a mistake he made. Every time we talk (BTW, I'm getting MUCH better at waiting for HIM to call ME) and every time he emails, he always says he loves me. I believe he does, but he's trying to rationalize that he can love and respect me and not be my spouse (the whole maybe we'd make better friends thing). So why does he hold my hand and put his arm around me when we're together. Is that just habit? I'm working on the hypersensitivity but it's so hard not to overanalyze everything.
Last week was really hard because the boys were gone to the grandparents' houses and I was very isolated all week. I got a lot of pity partying out of the way and was I thought amazingly strong this weekend. I'm still having good days and bad days and making mistakes pursuing, but they're getting fewer and further between. I'm reading a book called Hope for the Separated that has been helpful from a Christian perspective (which is important to me) and it's tiding me over until I can get my DB and DR books. Which of those should I read first?
I'm also working on GAL and trying to rediscover who I am. H said he is worried that I am "faking" with changes he is noticing. I told him that I have realized that I've not been living my life out loud and that regardless of anything with him, I've got a life to lead and want to make it the best it can be so I'm making changes based on my self-evaluation. Get over it buddy, it's not about you. He first looked at me like he sort of didn't believe me but then smiled and gave me a look of "you go girl - I like that." I just had to laugh.
We go to MC tomorrow at noon and I'm hopeful but trying to be realistic too. One step at a time. Also, I did get a pedicure last week, I'm still losing weight (that give me a new old wardrobe) and taking good care of one of my best features - my hair. No classes or anything yet, but that's a bit more challenging to get into with keeping up with the boys' activities. Hopefully soon I'll figure something out.
Any suggestions for how to handle giving him advice on MLC when he asks would be appreciated. Also, any tips for making MC most successful? Any other thoughts based on my sitch? Thanks for listening to this marathon post. Would you believe I had more stuff, but cut it out? Take care!

[In Limbo]

Help! Went to MC today and H said he is concerned about the changes he sees in me because he thinks I'm "faking it" just to get him to come back and he doesn't really know the real me. I told him that I was analyzing myself and have identified some changes I want to make so that I'm a better me for life going forward with or without him. He said he didn't buy it. What do I do?

[antlers]

Keep doing it!

[SoTired]

Help! Went to MC today and H said he is concerned about the changes he sees in me because he thinks I'm "faking it" just to get him to come back and he doesn't really know the real me. I told him that I was analyzing myself and have identified some changes I want to make so that I'm a better me for life going forward with or without him. He said he didn't buy it. What do I do?

Just keep it up. Its supposed to be the natural reaction of the spouse to be skeptical of any changes for awhile.
My W has said the same thing to her sister and me about how she has seen changes, but just thinks its a temporary thing to get her back and then it'll go back to the way it was before. I know that I have made changes for myself and they will stay permanent, but I guess maybe one day she will realize that too.

[In Limbo]

Thank you guys. It's just so hard. And I feel like every time I slip back into old habits I not only dissapoint myself, but I also make his case for him. I think he's just looking for reasons to justify leaving.

Also, I'm curious if anyone has any advice on how to talk with H about feeling like he's not just separated from me but also abandoned his boys. In the three weeks he's been gone he's only talked with them on the phone once. He's coming home on weekends, but he's been spending more time with me (good) and not really doing much with them (bad). When he interacts with him he is gruff and barks orders. They both keep asking why he's so agry with them. I don't know what to say so I just keep telling them he's stressed over his new job. During the week they don't even ask where he is (we told them the first week that he was going out of town for his new job). They need their dad and I don't want them to end up casualties of this sitch as well. How do I talk with H about that without being judgmental and keeping positive?

[sandi2]

Dear In Limbo, I am not feeling well so I won't be able to break down all of your post and respond to it at this time, but I will later. As for him saying what he did about your "changes".....a lot of spouses say that b/c they do not trust the changes or believe they will last or that they are real. So that is something that only time can prove out. It does have to be for "you" or it will not last, that is for sure. In repsonse to him saying what he did about you were only trying to get him back, act as if it does not bother you and tell him to think whatever he wants b/c you are not trying to convince him one way or the other. you are doing this for yourself so that you will be happier in your future.

I will talk to you soon.

Sandi

[In Limbo]

Sandi2,
Hope you feel better soon. I appreciate you taking time to post even though you're not feeling well. Take care!

[In Limbo]

I need some advice. I was just looking over our credit card bill and found that in a period of 8 days H spent over $300 at a bar he hangs out at with friends that used to include OW (he says not now). One of the charges was even for the same date that we had dinner. Since he worked that day, I'm guessing he must have gone there after work before we had dinner later. I want to ask him about it for obvious reasons (was her with OW and why did he insenuate he had come directly from work if he hadn't) but also because I consider that excessive spending and we have not divided our finances. Granted, H makes a lot more than me but how would he feel if I went out and spent that kind of money in one week at he spa or something? He keeps saying he is telling me everything but will not give me access to the computer (he has a private login with the admin rights and would not even give it to me so that I could load tax software). That indicates to me that he is hiding something. I need advice on this because I know I'm emotional about it right now and will be seeing H tonight as he is coming to the house to work on taxes. Does anyone have advice?

[sandi2]

Dear Limbo,

Glad to hear your response to my post. It’s good that you could talk to your H about him possibly being in MLC and him being concerned enough to read information. That is very positive. I don’t know, but I would think that if a person really wanted to work through the MLC so they could get out of it quicker, then it would happen. It would be hard, but I think it would be possible, IMHO. He would need a lot of support and a lot of self discipline and determination. I can’t stress enough how difficult it is. I would never have thought it if I had not had a taste of it myself.

I don’t know if there is a particular age for MLC. People use to say between 40-50, but I think it can happen younger or older b/c I think it depends on the things that are happening in one’s life that triggers it, but again, that is my opinion. I have known men, especially, whose father and maybe grandfather, died at a certain age and then they would begin to get very nervous when they started getting close to that number. So, it could be having a great deal to do with his behavior or maybe even triggered a MLC. I am certainly no professional about this subject.

Regarding the OW, you said:

“I would have preferred a "don't contact me again - ever" but will take what I can get.”

I don’t blame you for that, I would have felt the same way. I just hope he doesn’t pursue her or another woman since experiencing the thrill behind a secret affair. I know you said he told you it was not sexual, but I wonder if he meant that it wasn’t a “physical” affair by saying it wasn’t sexual. Mine was not physical, but it was very sexual in other ways. It seems odd that a man would need the emotional connection without the sexual. We usually think of women being more like that. Guess it would not be impossible!

“He and the ladies and one guy at his last job that hung out together were extremely close (that environment was VERY bad for our M).”

Yes, I can see where it would be, indeed! I am a strong believer in married people not having regular meetings with friends of the opposite sex or even their own little “groups” of friends when it does not include their spouse. Some people hoot at this, but I can nearly promise you it will end in trouble.

Limbo, I think a lot of his problem may have to do with the fact that the two of you never dated anyone else before you got married. He may be wondering what it would have been like to date another person besides you. Have you ever wondered the same thing? I think most people have wondered what it would be like to be with another person, but they just don’t admit it…..lol. But, seriously, I feel that this could be part of why he is feeling confused. However, when a person is in MLC, they are confused…….and at times feels like they are losing their minds. Their emotions are all over the place and they are not sure of what they want and they certainly are not consistent about anything.

I believe you are doing the right thing so far. You are trying to use the DB principles as best as you can and that is all any of us can do. Sure, you will backslide sometimes, but everyone does. Just resolve to try harder the next time.

Keep posting and reading other people’s threads. Reach out to them and they will post back to you. It may take a while until he comes around, but it is a good sign that he at least recognizes that he may be in MLC and that the OW may have broken contact. But, I will warn you…….he may not stay away from her, so you be prepared in case you find out that he has seen her or contacted her. As I told you before, it is a hard addiction to break.

Apparently, he was not happy and missing “passion” in the M by telling you he was not in love with you…….but loves you. You were being the “adult” while he was still playing the kid and going to parties. He may not be ready to grow up yet. Again, that happens to some people that marry young. It is not an excuse, but it happens.

You may have to take his name or your name off the credit card if he is going to be reckless. If the two of you are separated, then you may have to separate the accounts, also. You can't control his actions and he may end up ruining you financially.

If you pull back some and focus on yourself and become fun and interesting and become a bit unavailable (as in hard to get), I think it will get his attention. Why not try it and see? And....if he comes back with that old excuse of you "faking" your changes......just ignore him and let it run off your back. He is just trying to find stuff to complain about you.

Hope to hear from you again.

Take care,
Sandi