Of all the things I hate about this business, the thing I hate the most is the fact that she knows she has sexual power over me. That one truly sucks.
I was re-reading my posts about The Outing and the R talk that she initiated, and I remembered some more details about one aspect in particular.
She said during the car ride back that she had a lot of feelings for me, "different" feelings. "I like you. I care about you. And I have lots of other feelings, too, different feelings. And anger. And right now all I can see is anger."
And as she says this [so you sort of have to do the visualization thing here -- I'm driving, WAW's in pax seat] she reaches around with her arms and grabs the headrest on the seat -- something I don't think I've ever seen her do before -- which has the effect of causing her to arch her back a bit and, of course, push her breasts out.
And as I think on this today, it's actually the second time in recent days that she's done that. I recall (now) at least one evening where she did this, sitting in a chair and reaching behind to grab it in the same way, wearing her thin cottony sleepwear (and you can imagine the sub-fabric effects) and -- curiously -- not being bundled up in her robe (as she had been for the weeks after D-bomb).
Now obviously I've noticed, but don't seem to be processing in real-time. Afraid of the implications? Afraid of what I might do in response and set my DB'ing back (which of course begs the question if there's DB'in to be set back)? Or just afraid?
Wish I could puzzle it out, but I can't and know I shouldn't try. It's either a reflection of her new-found (MLC-related?) sexuality, an invitation, a tease, a taunt, or all of the above.
But it does hammer home quite nicely just how imbalanced the power is in all of this. I tried to kiss her once, in a nice way, a few days back and it was a disaster. Won't go to that well again.
i'll say it, those are sexual cues, it's quite possible she is trying to "tag" you, she possibly sees the changes you are making, getting a life, not focusing as much energy & attention on her (although I'll say it, that date with the special foods, etc. that did scream overtrying on your part, it showed you were trying hard to impress you).
But the "tagging" part is pretty evident. She mentioned before if I read correctly that you should go out & have sex with someone else. She puts that thought out there for you to go get some so she doesn't feel as guilty. But.... the thoughts sits in her mind since she originated it, she then starts to imagine you having sex with someone. If she has had a sexual encounter with another man, she knows the excitement that the "new" feelings produce (they are just feelings) but the flipside is this. She then gets an idea that you will experience the same thing, something new & exciting and then the idea of you moving on without her gets her off balance. Up until now, this has been her decision. You entered this relationship model together, you both consented to get together, be married, have kids, etc. etc. etc. She entered into a new relationship model without you, she made that decision without you, she has power now and control. She hasn't initiated a separation or divorce and truth be told, even if she talks about it, I don't think she will do it. She likes the security of having the husband at home who loves her and will always be waiting to take her back if SHE decides to come back.
Let's get back to the sex thing because it's all related. She has mentioned sex several times. If she is having sex with someone else, that in itself is very exciting, it's forbidden, it's adultery, it's bad, it's everything she shouldn't be doing and the allure is intoxicating. Here is the flipside to this, how about if she can have sex with 2 men? That other guy and you, that would be very exciting. Don't ever believe that women don't want to have sex with more than one man, even married women. Women in their 30s & early 40s go through a lot of changes hormonally, women enter their sexual prime in their 30s due to an increase in testosterone. I'm not sure when that tapers off but she may have been thinking about for sometime.
Anyways I'm long winded as usual and I'll try to bring it home, she mentions sex around you several times, the way she arches her back and pushes her chest out to accent her breasts so that you will notice, she is trying to draw you in. I won't be surprised when she "tags" you and you have sex with her, it will be exciting sex for both of you: she will do things that she hasn't done for what seems like forever and you will invariably do what it takes to impress her during this and you will give her the best sex you have ever given her, which is probably something raw & animal like and it's probably something she's been wanting for some time.
This will lead you to believe that she wants to come back and be with you (and I'm not saying that's impossible either) but if I'm correct, she will just be "tagging" you, to make you believe this so that she still has power & control over the relationship you both have.
I'll be following this thread, I'm not predicting the future, it's just I've seen & read about this and it's almost like it's starting to follow a script of sorts.
If I'm mistaken nothing happens, if I'm not though, watch for her to continue talking about sex, showing you some more attention, starting to be a little nicer than usual, throwing you all sorts of signals to throw you off balance.
I can't tell you if you should or shouldn't have sex either. But knowing some of this info does kind of put in the driver's seat a little bit.
Hi there SP - Its very very tempting to look for labels - in order to understand your W - I did too...I went through a stage of believing that my W also was in MLC - and that was a contributory factor in our situation...I realised though, pretty quickly, that regardless of the label, I had to deal with the here and now...the labelling of my W didn't benefit me at all save to give me a couple of days of self-delusional emotional relief - it didn't change the reality of the situation...
To robx - the cognitive dissonance works on both sides - for the person who is being left behind - CDiss can be created by 180s and acting AS IF - in that the LBS is not acting in ways in which WAW expects - this is uncomfortable and sets up WA with a challenge - she is wrong (crudely) and therefore has to do some re-working of her understanding of the relationship - rewriting history and also there are attempts to push the LBS into actions / behaviours which confirm her cognition - in which case that dissonance is dealt with.
If the LBS can stay strong in the face of this the WAW is left with a dissonance that must be resolved - generally the human mind cannot cope with dissonance - there has to be a resolution...a "reconfiguring" of one's cognition - that's why I suggested that its one of the most powerful tools.
SP - I just have to chime in here about the arching the back thing....
I'm in a good relationship right now with no infidelity or anything of that sort. However, my man has trust issues from his past so sometimes he "sees" things that aren't there. His fears cause him to imagine things that aren't true.
Several times in our relationship, we've had friends over, and during a pleasant, normal talk, I might stretch the way you are describing (arching back). Everytime this has happened, my man has given me "the look" which means "knock it off", and I have at first been like "umm....what did I do?" Later he would tell me "don't arch your back and make your boobs stick out like that, it drives men crazy!" I didn't even realize I had done it, but I certainly stopped doing it at all eventually.
In my experience, all I had done was stretch my back after a long day. I would have done this if no one was home, too. But in his mind, I am making a subconscious message to our guests to check out my boobs.
Soooo....all I am saying is that what looks like a subconscious message to you may only be her stretching her back.
I'm not saying she isn't giving you sexual cues, because I do think she is. But I'm just doubtful that this one action is one of those cues.
You have heard the expression DAM (dumb ass man)? And understand how there are certain things that men do which they just don't realize are dumb, but which women certainly have a problem with. Well, there are some things that qualify as DAG (dumb ass girl) actions. Things that - being that we are not constantly watching for sexual cues for the most part the way men are - we don't realize may come across that way. Especially with the man you've been with for so long, we eventually come to believe that they don't really notice our bodies the way a stranger does. And we frequently don't realize that men notice boobs at all. That may seem silly to you, but it just isn't on our minds all the time so we kind of forget that boobs are such a big deal. (This doesn't necessarily describe me, but I think it would apply to most women).
These are all very useful comments indeed. To robx: W has initiated a separartion. We've been living apart in the house since d-day & she's moving out in June after kids's school yr ends.
On the food thing, that was all 180- the boring old housedad me she's divorcing would never have thought something through like that. So yeah -I was doing some impressing to be sure, but by the same token I really liked the result & ift's something that I can add to my dating repertoire when W moves out. (Assuming I take her up on her invitation to date OW to my heart's content, of course. But even if I don't, it'll be a nice thing for courting the next ex-Mrs. SP.
To DanceQueen: you may well be right. Overthinkingly, what strikes me is (a) the timing and (b) the move itself, which I've never seen her do in 22 years. Let me just say as a personal aside, DQ, you seem like an awfully cool Lady & I'm glad you check in on my thread from time-to-time.
To GFI, I fully agree that labels are only temporary salves. I'm just curious to know is all.
SP - you strike me as one very sorted out man...its hard to figure out why your W would be choosing the path she is...and although I think i've been reading along pretty closely I haven't picked up much to give me that information...
Do you know why?
And one more thing - your attitude to this seems much like Coach's - I see that he and Greek have posted to you previously - but I wonder - have you checked out all his posts? If not it might prove useful...the way he conducted himself and his growth over the course of a few months was an inspiration and lesson to many of us!
To DanceQueen: you may well be right. Overthinkingly, what strikes me is (a) the timing and (b) the move itself, which I've never seen her do in 22 years. Let me just say as a personal aside, DQ, you seem like an awfully cool Lady & I'm glad you check in on my thread from time-to-time.
That's my point, if we've been married for longer periods of time, we tend to know our partner's mannerisms, I don't think you would have mentioned these moves to arch her back and show off her breasts to get your attention if it wasn't out of the blue and something that wasn't common.
My gut instinct is that it's a gesture to get your attention. She also mentioned sex a few times, when people are separating and one spouse is leaving another, it just doesn't seem like a regular topic of discussion - out of the blue you start talking about sex and what she would have liked instead. Those to me are all signals that she wants to give you a bit of a "workout". Prove me wrong, no worries.
I read another comment, something to the effect of "I don't understand why she's doing this to you, seems like you're a great guy...", when women have affairs, it's not necessarily all about the husband, although they will use a poor marriage as part of the excuse to have an affair and have sex with another man. How does that saying go, "... resentment breeds entitlement".
Hi there - it may be this "My gut instinct is that it's a gesture to get your attention"
but on the other hand it could be a freeing up of inhibitions that can build up within a M when partners have got a point where they're not communicating freely with each other...
I for one know now that there are things I could say to my W (from whom I'm separated) that I wouldn;t have dreamt saying before - that was the problem really when it comes down to it for me - "communication". Perhaps the non-verbal behaviour you've witnessed is a manifestation of something along those lines?
Again very insightful responses, for which I thank you all.
I'm dropping the rope on the boob-thrust. You know, if it was sexual, hooah to that -- I'm a Democrat so I'm all for boobs. All boobs. You know, 'cause I'm in favor of democracy and all!
If it was just stretching, then bully for her - she's comfortable enough around me now to stretch.
The sex talk is something else. It's unprompted, which is out of character for her. The language itself is out of character -- she's always been big on euphemisms. Is it a taunt or a tease or a sign that she's moved on and is girlfriending me? Damned if I know, and I don't think it matters all that much.
Under no circumstances can I imagine myself "putting the moves" on her. By nature I don't like rejection, and the nearly 8 weeks since the D-bomb have been the most powerful, sustained, life-altering weeks of rejection in my entire life, so I'll be blunt -- at this point I'm just too cowardly to risk any more such rejection, regardless of consequences.
Two fine-looking women of my acquaintance -- who learned about it all from a friend of a friend of one of WAW's friends -- have offered me all the uncomplicated, no-strings-attached, pity sex I can stand which, though I'm disinclined to accept, is nevertheless a very kind offer.
So if there's an itch to be scratched bad enough, there you go.... But to try it with WAW and either be shot down or (perhaps WORSE) to succeed. I'm starting to feel some confidence in my DB'ing thus far and don't want to risk the setback. Does that sound wimpy? I guess it does. Oh well.
GFI, you asked "why"? Why is WAW choosing her path?
If I'd been able to leave up my original thread, I'd just link it.
So for all and sundry, if you'll indulge me, I'll hold off on answering GFI's query for the next post, in which I'll recap everything on Post #1 of my original thread that led up to D-day. As I do with IC and the 2 close friends in whom I've confided, I will commit to you to be as fair to WAW and her POV as possible.
