working today and things kept coming back to me throughout the day, 2 wks ago my wife asked for a ride home from work and i said yes, doh, that was before my new mindset and yes i know that was a stupid mistake but im learning, anyway we rode home and the conversation was all about her everything, then i switched it to me, i spoke about the things i was doing the stuff i had planned and of course the gym, i could see it in her eyes she was well pissed, i took her to her mothers house were we sat for about an hour chatting she was crying and saying stuff like you will have a circle of friends now and forget about me, i reassured her i wont, doh. in a few months you wont want to speak to me, i reassured her i will, doh. she then said i dont think we should be friends, i pleaded to be her friend, doh. lots of other stuff to and i always reassured her, yes i know it was a mistake i shouldn't of done it but i did, but im aware of it now and thats the difference, you see she was searching for it and she felt i was slipping away i gave her the bait and she reeled me in like a wet fish, so you see the pattern?
i come along way in the last week and its thanks to you guys, but there is one guy i want to thank the most and thats ROB, cheers my friend you are making me the person i should be
beno, keep at it bud. I had a moment where I slid back yesterday myself with an email that I sent to the W. I regretted pleading for her to come over and made myself promise I won't instantly send her another response. I will take some time and think before I act.
My W is also blaming me for having the circle of friends. Our friends were very intertwined. She chose not to go to them when she needed them and even some of her friends feel betrayed that they had no idea that she was thinking of pulling out. I just have to tell myself that she chose to do things the way she did. She will have to live with her consequences of her actions and decisions and I will live with mine.
Rob!!!!! I have to second beno's accolades man..... You have been a life saver with your logic and reasoning. I have read and re-read your advice several times. Thank You!
M 30 WAW 29 T 15 M 5 ILYBNILWY 3/8/09 Separated 3/14/09
yes make sure you think before you act, if you get an email walk away and think about it do something to take your mind off it, also be careful not to turn all the friends against her beacuse it will make it even harder for her to come home to you, all my friends and both sets of families are talking to both of us, they side with me but they dont tell her that, they are doing it for me beacuse they know it will be hard for her to come back if they do
beno, It sounds like you are writing my story man. I certainly don't want to turn her friends against her. I wouldn't say that any of them are against her, although she feels that way. Many of her friends have confided in me that they have no idea what the heck is going on. Several of them are upset that she isn't turning to them for support during this time. I don't have answers for them any more than I can give answers for why she snapped. She is alienating herself and I can't help her in that department. Our family sitch is just the same. Her family can't understand why this is happening. They are there for her and support her, but they can't figure it out.
I have been trying to rationalize an unrational action/decision. That is what I am focusing on letting go of right now.
M 30 WAW 29 T 15 M 5 ILYBNILWY 3/8/09 Separated 3/14/09
guys I appreciate the compliments but seriously don't place me up on a pedestal, I went through/am going through the same thing you went through, the only thing I did was finally give up at one point and when I noticed my wife kind of snapped back into behavior showing that she wanted me, it threw me for a loop, that's when I noticed that my previous wussy behaviors of giving in to her and giving her everything and taking crap, cruel abuse from her wasn't the way to go. Then when I stopped being afraid of her (and it was a scary point in time because I was afraid of her, it became near masochistic, I found myself loving her more even though she became meaner & more cruel to me during this process), a switch flipped inside of me after one episode where she really pushed it and said some rude & horrible things to me (including swearing & calling me pathetic), maybe it's just a personal self-defense mechanism, a switch that got flipped and said "how long are you going to take this?", "do you really deserve this?", "criminals in prison get treated better", etc.
That was the day that I moved back into my home, my wife had asked me to move out several months earlier and I did with my tail between my legs, I moved into $hitty apartment down the street from our home and paid every bill at our home and paid rent at my place, lived on credit fumes - it was actually a blessing in disguise, I had to diet didn't have much left over for money & personal expense. Anyways after the episode that I mentioned above where the "switch was flipped", I decided to move back in, nothing was worth feeling the pain & abuse that I was feeling, I pretty much let go of ever getting back together with my wife, when she got back from her trip with the kids (she went to visit her brother out of town for a couple of weeks), I picked them up from the airport, brought them home, she told me she was tired and that I could come back later on if I wanted to see the kids (kids were gone for 2 weeks, hadn't seen them for more than 30min. and she was dictating to me that I still had to wait to see them). It was an incredibly nervous feeling in my stomach, maybe it's comparable to a baby first learning to walk, I told her I wasn't going anywhere and that I had decided to move back home (take into account that we bought the home several months earlier, I spent 3 months renovating it and then we move in and then she tells me she wants me to move out & separate and I was the big wussy that actually did it because I couldn't understand why she didn't want to be with me anymore and I figured if I did everything for her that she would love me again and ask me to come back home). When she stepped into the master bedroom and saw that I had emptied one of the master bedroom closets and put my stuff in there, emptied the 2nd night stand and placed my things in there and she could see her stuff was in boxes - she went ape $hit, angrier, violent & more crazy than ever before and I didn't stop there, I then told her that I would allow her to treat me poorly anymore and I didn't care if we were ever getting back together, it wasn't worth feeling like a victim, an abused animal and that I would help her move out if she wanted. She left that day, drove off in a whirlwind and left the kids behind at home with me (no problem). I also stopped with the visitation schedule she set up for me and got joint shared custody of the kids and now have them 50% of the time (and usually more).
I started feeling better about myself because I stood up for myself, not in an angry combative way, but in a strong masculine way. Spellfire (aka Mike) a great source of support for me here on this site, gave me a great analogy. A man is like a wall to his wife, the type of wall depends on the type of man you are. A weak wall that she can punch holes in easily (she can be mean, uncaring, unloving, angry and treat you that way and you don't set boundaries, you jump at every request and when you ask for something you are shut down, you never win an argument and even those fights where you should be right, it gets turned around and you feel stupid for bringing the issue up and you feel like it was your fault in the 1st place, a weak wall is a weak man). Or you can be a strong wall that is tested for it's strength regularly but weathers each test and stands strong regardless of what happens, you command respect from others because you respect yourself, you are not a doormat, you are not a punching bag, and you set limits & boundaries for how people will treat you in life.)
that past 19 months have been the most life shattering, hurtful, painful, heart breaking, life changing & ultimately the most rewarding 19 months of my life. I feel like a real man now and I can honestly say that I was going through the motions of my life previously (working, paying bills, taking of family & home... wash, rinse, repeat) and now I enjoy my life, I really enjoy it and when you learn this and go through this, you will really enjoy your life too and you won't take yourself for granted for another person.
one thing thats confusing me is if it is a MLC? do i sttill deal with it the same. ie: darkness, be mysterious, etc etc all the things you have said to do? or do i tread a little bit more careful? there is one more thing. i planned a trip day out with my kids and my wifes sister and her hubby and child, i did not include my wife in this and didnt tell her, she found out yesterday about this and when i spoke to her she brought up the subject saying, " nobody told me your plans, first i heard was in a conversation with my mum " it sounded like she was a bit angry at the thought of us all enjoying a day out without her, i could be wrong but i felt it.
another thing she did she went over in detail her last weekend whereabouts. what she did, were she went, who she was with,time she was home. not boasting about it, i think she was trying to tell me please dont think im out loving every minute of it, it was ok but bit boring to, and telling me she was home early so i wasnt with any guy, it was like she was telling me you dont need to worry about me, im just having some fun and im not interested in other people, it was wierd not sure if ive read it wrong? maybe i have but there was definitley something in her voice,
Have you suspected that she's been cheating on you Beno and you brought it up to her possibly in the past? Why is she opening up with all these details and telling you what she isn't doing? She made the decision to separate from you with asking you, she kept that a secret for a long period of time until she finally decided to do it. Now that she is separated from you she is trying to tell you what she isn't doing? I would ask where was the honesty when you were previously together when she was planning to leave you, never mentioned how unhappy she was and kept it from you so that you couldn't help her? In fact don't ask, the answer is she wasn't truly honest back then so even if she gave you an answer now to these questions, how could you confirm that she was honest? Plus her coming out and telling you specifically what she did last weekend, why the confession & admission to what she isn't doing? Why is she compelled to tell you what she isn't doing? If I didn't do anything and I was separated from my spouse, why would I have to tell my spouse what I had been doing? What would be the impetus, the motivation, for this extra information that you probably didn't ask for? When people feel guilty, really guilty, they end up talking too much, the conscience is trying to over compensate for the feelings of guilt - how would you know what she did anyways? What if she didn't go out? What if she had someone over? How could you or anyone else really know? Is someone monitoring her 24/7? The truth is you don't know, she could be telling the truth but she could also be lying, we don't know and won't really ever know. When you let go of the need to know what she is doing every second you are not with her, it will feel better for you. Your brain is working in maximum overdrive right now, being extra aware of every action, every word, every discussion in the past, present & future: with all of these conflicting thoughts racing through your head on a regular basis you are probably filled with stress, anxiety, depression, despair, emotional longing, you probably feel like you need to be close to her physically, to be held, kissed, loved. All very natural responses to a situation like this, I'm sure sleeping is crappy, I'm sure it's hard to concentrate at work and you probably feel exhausted quite a bit.
More later, stay strong guys, it's all you have control over. You can't control what your wives do and ultimately can't control if you get together or get divorced, the only thing you can control is yourself, your actions, your thoughts, your words and once you realize that you have this amount of control and it is your control, no one elses, you have the power to start feeling better, to start taking care of yourself and to love & respect yourself - that's the ultimate goal because at that point you will have found the courage, the bravery, the confidence that was stripped from you during this process.
I'm long winded as usual, talk later guys, let me know how you are doing!
so alot of what we've been talking about is our experiences and seeing how our behaviors are partially responsible for what got us into these problems, we became lesser men and now we're finding out how changing our behaviors will get us better results but ultimately the end result we want more than anything is to respect & love ourselves because then regardless of what happens with our marriages, we will be able to perservere and continue living a life worth living.
One question I have to ask you is this, what have you currently done about your situations: I'll use both you Beno & MakingIT. Have your wives legally separated from you, have they filed for separation or divorce? How long have you been separated/living apart?
I hear terms like "going dark" being sprinkled in some of your responses, and I'm not sure that's going to necessarily help here (again I'm not guaranteeing anything either way).
If you've been reading all of our recent posts, you should now see that you have alot more information than most men in the same situations. Having information available yet failing to act is like having good intentions, nice to have them but they don't get anything done - in fact they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
In your current situations, you've observed your own behaviors now (and how you need to start changing) and you've definitely been observing/investigating your wive's behaviors (both in how they're living, their attitudes towards your relationships/marriages and their attitudes towards you). Do any of you believe that your wives are having an affair or are on the cusp of the beginning of a potential affair. If you feel certain they aren't, then you wouldn't spend so much time here talking about it I have to assume.
I'm sure I've said it before and if I haven't I'll say it now, your marriages will probably end if you keep pretending that nothing is wrong and you continue to grovel for your wive's affection (phone calls, texts, gifts, money, being submissive and taking crappy cruel behavior from your wives, etc.) Remember that women have no respect for men who are afraid of them and that women are actually quite mean to the men who do.
Are you both ready & feel strong enough to do what must be done regardless if it means the end of your marriages?
(your next questions will invariably be what is it that we should do Rob but before you ask what you should do, look at your respective situations and be honest if you are strong enough to let them go or if you want to drag these situations on for months and possibly years?)
One question I have to ask you is this, what have you currently done about your situations: I'll use both you Beno & MakingIT. Have your wives legally separated from you, have they filed for separation or divorce? How long have you been separated/living apart?
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rob my wife has not legally separated from me nor has she asked for a divorce, she actually said she dosent want one, we have been apart 5 weeks now,
(your next questions will invariably be what is it that we should do Rob but before you ask what you should do, look at your respective situations and be honest if you are strong enough to let them go or if you want to drag these situations on for months and possibly years?)
again rob i now believe im strong enough to let go infact last night i did nothing but think about myself, thats the first time ive done that, normally im constantly thinking of my wife, so yes i do beleive im now ready to let go, i certainly dont want to drag these feeling out for months or years. it hurts way to much and makes you feel like cr@p,
In your current situations, you've observed your own behaviors now (and how you need to start changing) and you've definitely been observing/investigating your wive's behaviors (both in how they're living, their attitudes towards your relationships/marriages and their attitudes towards you). Do any of you believe that your wives are having an affair or are on the cusp of the beginning of a potential affair. If you feel certain they aren't, then you wouldn't spend so much time here talking about it I have to assume.
I'm sure I've said it before and if I haven't I'll say it now, your marriages will probably end if you keep pretending that nothing is wrong and you continue to grovel for your wive's affection (phone calls, texts, gifts, money, being submissive and taking crappy cruel behavior from your wives, etc.) Remember that women have no respect for men who are afraid of them and that women are actually quite mean to the men who do.
yes rob ive been like a lost puppy, other people have seen it so my wife has definitley seen it, i could not, but now i do, i do see that deparate person and it dosent look good at all, im worth more than that, regards to an affair nothing in life is 100% but i feel she wont be, however i do believe the temptation has been there afterall her partying in the clubs with all the single girls, she may of had a one night stand who knows but im sure there aint an affair.
yes i have been pretending nothing is wrong, ive been carrying the burden of it all every last ounce of it, my wife has yet to experiance any loss, beacuse ive been and done everything i normally do for her, its not different for her, she is the one smiling and happy and going about life in an arrogant way, while im the one going through all of this and acting like nothing is wrong to her, so she cant see what she is actually doing,
