WAW - Very confused and devastated - pt 6

[antlers]

This is getting really difficult - helping at the risk of more Mr Nice Guy behaviour vs. not helping at the risk of not demonstrating compassion.

I have told her that I will not stop her but will not help her. She hasn't asked me to help her, but keeps saying that she doesn't have anyone to help her and she's doing the best that she can. I am very torn as to what's the right thing to do.

My value is that I don't believe that the separation is the right thing. I do believe she needs some space and time and believe we can do it in the same house. She doesn't believe that. She feels that if she doesn't leave soon, being faced with the person who hurt, she will not be able to keep it together any longer. She feels like she is trapped and needs escape. Even when she see's I've changed, she gets mad that I couldn't understand it back when she "cared".

This is a BIG decision point in my path

I helped her move because she needed help and I loved her, plain and simple. It had nothing to do with anything else. I didn't believe the separation was the right thing either, and still don't. But it was out of my hands. She had already decided that she was leaving. She moved most everything herself, and I could not stop her. To her, she 'had' to leave. She had to re-establish her identity...'find herself' again. I had given her so much misery over the years that she got to that point. That's a hard pill to swallow, but I had to because it was the truth. She couldn't process the tons of emotions, much less start healing, while she was around me. Now, she's processing all of this. She's been out since Feb. 22nd. Her anger and rage are something to behold. It's hard to hear the stuff she says to me...full of anger and rage. But I keep telling myself that I said a lot of crap to her over the years that was simply awful, and I didn't mean any of it...I was just pissed off and/or hurting.

[MrBond]

"That is a really tough question. If she was a really good friend I would help her, even if I disagreed with what she was doing. How do I resolve this against falling into the Mr. Nice Guy syndrom?"

Forget about the overanalyzing of being too much of a "Nice Guy". Helping her is called being a gentleman. Being an enabler is going above and beyond what you would do to anyone else. Or maybe just help her load the car and let her deal with the rest.

"Isn't it natural/normal to feel hurt when you see parts of your life disappearing everyday?"

Yep perfectly normal. We all go through that. That's why GAL is very important and detachment.

"Did you help her move when she left? How much help did you give? From what I remembered, you mentioned she moved in with family. So did she take furniture like my wife is or just clothes?"

She took her clothes and our kids clothes and toys. She left everything else. When she left it was done in anger and I had actually told her after our first and only C session that when I got home I didn't want her there since she kept saying how unhappy she was with me.

After she left, I only talked to her to get a hold of my daughters. Aside from that...nothing. Then about a couple of weeks later, I asked her to join me on some of the days I had my kids. Sometimes but not all the time.

"I do believe she needs some space and time and believe we can do it in the same house."

I don't see that. I see when you two are together that you cling onto the feelings of the other. While she's been in the house, you've been enabling her ALOT by letting her say what she wants or doesn't want from you. I think she realizes that so needs the time away from you to sort things out.

"I have told her that I will not stop her but will not help her. She hasn't asked me to help her, but keeps saying that she doesn't have anyone to help her and she's doing the best that she can."

When you said that in that manner, it did sound kind of uncool.

"This is a BIG decision point in my path"

Yes but you've already made the decision. To let her go. Period. If you can't put on a friendly face in front of her while she's doing this, then leave. if she asks you why you're not helping her, tell her the truth that it hurts to see her leave and that's it. Don't go into how you feel, how what she's doing is wrong, how you can work things out. KISS. Keep It Simple... don't over complicate things. When you do, they get over dramatized and you two end up arguing again.

[confusedinpa]

Great 180 ideas in there for you - read up on the ABCDE rechnique.
Cheers

What's the ABCDE rechnique?

[song]

For what it's worth, I didn't help my W move at all because I didn't agree with her decision to run away from a problem rather than confront it, and I told her that. I also told her I would be over in a moment's notice to move her home when she decides to do so. For 3 months I didn't even go to or see the apartment, then in a giant 180, I decided that it was better for our kids to remain in our home than to go back and forth between home and W's apartment every night, so since then she and I have been going back and forth.

Has it worked? no. Has it drawn us closer? no. Has she said "I'm done, I want to move on, it's over, we will never live together again"? yes Has she filed for D? no.

I'm 6 months into WAW land and almost 1 year since we last ML, so I know your pain, believe me, I know your pain. But, I realize that she has all the power, and the only thing I have is time, so all I can do is give her time and space, and take each day as it comes. However it turns out, I want to know that I never gave up, and I held onto my values and principles.

That, this board, and lots of prayer are all that are getting me through each day.

[antlers]

I realize that she has all the power, and the only thing I have is time, so all I can do is give her time and space, and take each day as it comes. However it turns out, I want to know that I never gave up, and I held onto my values and principles.

Well said. I can certainly relate.

[confusedinpa]

Long conversation tonite

She started with custody. She agreed to Thur, Fri and Sat for me. She would then have Sun, Mon and Tues. We would alternate Weds. She would pick up when they woke up on Sun. I told her I would sleep on it but it seemed reasonable. I wouldn't really have a Fri or Sat nite out, but that's not my priority right now. I can always change that if that's what I want.

Ironically I was going to agree to alternating weekly starting Sun, with twice a week visitation. I've got to decide what is better

She also talked about how she felt it would be better if we were flexible and worked together in the context of the parenting agreement. I told her it made sense

Also, I got her to agree to support of $1200/month. I feel a little bad about that but I need to start protecting myself at some point. I just have to get her to sign it before she talks to her lawyer.

She then started talking about all the stuff that she needs to do in order to get to her apt next weekend. I told her this is not what I want but it is something that she wants. I do love her enough to not stand in her way but it hurts me to see her leave. If she wants/needs me to help, I will because I do love her even though it will be very painful for me to help. She asked me to help her take apart a bookcase/wall unit I said she could take and help split the kids toys. In my mind it seemed like I got off easy but I made her feel like I struggled to agree

I did tell her that I will likely take down our larger wedding pictures after she leaves. Not because my feelings have changed but because it would be too hurtful to look at them everyday. She offered to take them. I said I would put it in her craftroom and shut the door. I did say I would leave up a few of our smaller pictures though. She said she still has pictures of me up in her cube at work.

I then reminded her about considering pausing any divorce stuff until she healed and was sure there was no "Happily ever after" for us. She said right now she doesn't see a possible happily ever after with me, but she said she would consider it. I did tell her that I'm really not sure what "Happily ever after" looks like either as that is something that we would have to talk about and agree as it needs to be a shared vision. Right now I just have half the picture and when she is ready, I would love to hear hers.

We then talked about how frustrated she was about how the counseling was just focused on the past. She seemed it just kept reopening the old wounds/hurt. I agreed, acknowledged and validated. I asked if she would be more comfortable talking about what we could be doing differently. She said she wasn't ready to talk about future type stuff but would prefer to talk about the present. I said I would talk to our counselor next week and let her know

She then said that she would like to help me plan and setup the kids B'day party. I said I would appreciate that.

I then told her that I would like her to think about making time for us. While I will be respecting her space while she is healing, I don't want her to think that because I an not calling and asking, that my feelings have changed. She did say that if there was something going on that I would like to invite her to that the boys and us can go to, she said I should feel free to invite her. She said not pressure or guilt her into, but invite. I said I would. She said she would need to think about making time for just the 2 of us.

I then told her I do not feel that the seperation does not mean the end of the marriage and I will be behaving as such. If it does wind up with a divorce, I will then move on and change my behavior. She agreed, although caveated that does think the marriage is over, she says she will act and behave like she is married until the divorce is final. She was worried that she thought I would become a jerk to her if we are divorced. I told her that I will be treat her with respect as I can not look at my boys if I am not treating their mother fairly. She seemed ok with that

Overall, hard conversation. I feel good about what we've come to agreement though. I still don't agree with the seperation. She seemed satisfied though. .

So its pretty firmed up, she will be starting in her apartment next weekend

[confusedinpa]

One other thing she talked about is that she is still hurt and angry. She feels like she can't trust me to be vulnerable and love again. She said its like having a really good friend do something unthinkable to you. Can you be trust that person to be friends again?

I said it had happened to me before and I was able to be friends again

I asked if she had

She said it happened to her but the friendship wasn't the same afterwards. Oh oh I thought. This is going to be a long road back.

[confusedinpa]

My oldest turned 7 today. Great day for him

It seemed a little awkward between my wife and I. We chatted very lightly while we got ready. When woke up our boys and wished our oldest happy B'day. Little does he know that one of his b'day surprises this weekend is my wife wants to tell them she is moving out. Pretty heartless.

We did joke and laugh while we were with the boys. My oldest thought my wife sat on his bed without underwear on so he started to say "Butt crack alert" and laughing. She was wearing underwear. Then my 3 year old started saying it too. Then my wife pulled off her underwear and sat on my lap and said "Butt crack alert" as well. It was a lot of laughing and fun

The boys ran out of the room. My wife asked me to crack her back. I said "sure hun, loved to". We hugged and she got a "rise" out of me as I cracked her back. I could tell that made her feel awkward as we broke away.

She was a little distant after that.

Oh well, whatever.

I will be strong for my boys and choose to be happy

[volleydog]

We then talked about how frustrated she was about how the counseling was just focused on the past. She seemed it just kept reopening the old wounds/hurt.

A few months after my W and I were out of MC she said the same thing. I agreed we went every week and the hurt was brought out but we both realized we should have told the C that we didn't want to talk about the past but how to move forward. I'm not sure I'll get the chance to do MC again but if you do maybe that's something you and your W should make sure the C knows.