Is the answer blowing in the wind?

[Loving_Life]

Hey Trixi-

I'm sorry to hear about your pup, and all your latest... I'm having a tough time too lately- wondering why I'm having to deal w. so much at once.(health, job, D). All I know is that things don't stay bad forever, which means if things are rough now, it's due to get better in the future again. ;). Focus on activities you love as much as possible(in your spare time), that is my only salvation for increasing my positive attitude about my daily life. All we really have is our own minds and faith to create a better future. But this is the most powerful thing that we all have and no one else can ever take that away from you. More powerful than another person, a specific job, place, time, etc... I hope I'm helping. This is what helps me.

[Trixi]

Well, counseling was just brilliant. NOT!
Yesterday he basically said that he just wanted to be single, not be committed to *anyone*. In our previous session he had said something like "For the first time in my life, I am okay alone" and the counselor said that he was going thru a "really important developmental stage." It probably won't 'read' right here, but I couldn't help but feel like she handed him a "legitimate reason" to bail.

I had watched Fireproof (by myself) and it galvanized my position to try; but after yesterday's session, I don't know. He is pretty clear he wants to be single. He started to rewrite history--a couple months ago he "had thought he hit the jackpot when we got married and was so in love"; yesterday "we got married for the wrong reasons." How text book.

When he was saying all this stuff, I was crying and the counselor said "That must be so painful for you to hear, blah blah blah". It ticked me off. I sort of lashed out by saying "I don't need to be validated, please stop." I also said "I do NOT appreciate this sort of "values-neutral" approach to marriage counseling. Even H had said he wished his parents had encouraged him to at least think twice before leaving. Therapy that supports this "follow your feelings" crap is damaging."
She rebutted that her default is to work on the marriage unless someone says they don't want to and then she will help people work thru the divorce process. I see the so-called logic in that, but it seems like she doesn't actually try hard to get people to really consider what they are doing.

When my H suggested he wanted to be friends and I looked at him like he was crazy, she pipes in "You need to leave her alone to grieve." I suppose that is the "right" thing to say, but it ticked me off. I wish I knew why- it just did.

At the beginning of the session I had asked him to watch Fireproof. After he says that he is "numb to it all", wants to just be single and not committed to anyone, etc, she says "So, you agreed to watch Fireproof. Will you do that before we get together next week?" He said he would. Outside I told him that I wasn't sure if I would even be at the next session. Honestly, I am not sure he needs to see Fireproof; when he says the word "Christian" it's like it's a turd on his tongue.

We agreed that we needed a break to "just sit with things". I've been asked out on a non-threatening semi-date. (I met the guy at a meetup months ago and he is moving back east, hence why it is non-threatening.) My daughter and her friend want to set me up with her friend's dad. I'm not trying to find a relationship; just want to see what else is out there. H and I have been living separately for almost 18 months. I feel more disconnected from him than ever. There is a whole world out there and I have been dealing with the "It's all about H" show for long enough. I can look myself in the mirror and know that I gave it my all and then some.

He has a ton of growing (up) to do; he is throwing out the one person in the world that knows him best, that he trusted the most (per his words). He "might realize he made a mistake in 6 months or a year...or maybe not.." he doesn't "know". And he does realize I might have moved on and fallen in love with someone else by then, and if I do, that's alright because he just wants me to be happy.

I still believe in marriage; I still think that in this society it is WAY too easy to divorce and people give up WAY too easily. If I was independently wealthy, I would probably go to school to become a marriage counselor. I think being married offers opportunity for growth that can only be acheived thru marriage.

And, by now, I think I am morally released. He does have addiction problems, there has been adultery (in the sense of his EA a few years ago and now he has done "stuff" with two other girls), and this limbo land has taken it's toll on me. He hasn't fully acknowledged his part in all of this (at least not sincerely), so there's nothing left for me to do. I have been loyal, faithful, supportive, understanding, acknowledged my part, encouraging... he has stomped on my feelings; he has been inconsiderate, self-centered, borderline cruel.

I am seeing an individual counselor of my own now. I like him so far. Heh- the MC offered to counsel us individually thru the divorce process. Wow, that's mighty nice of you- PASS!

I know I have blathered on and on; I consider this to sort of be my online journal. Of course, if anyone *does* have thoughts, I'm cool with feedback. :-)

[Loving_Life]

Hi Trixi,

Good to see you posting again lately. Sorry to hear about the MC... In my sitch of course, MC didn't end up helping either. I totally felt like the C was on his side or something at a few points. Looking back, I guess she was trying to make him feel validated, even though he was saying nasty things. Like it's ok for him to say anything on his mind to help open up the dialog- whatever.. I know what you mean about the 'switch' and rewriting history- that's exactly what my x did. I hope your IC helps. That sounds hopeful.

You have done a lot to help save your M, no guilt or shame allowed! I know how easy it is to go there- thoughts in my head still pop up like this, even after my D.

I would love to chat more sometime. Are you on FB or any of those sites? Not sure how to exchange emails on this board.

[Trixi]

Actually, yeah, I am on FB. Not sure how to let you know who I am since it's my real name....?

You know, I get the whole "validation" thing; BUT, to not actually challenge the person...? My H was talking about when he first moved out he was feeling lonely and tried out those other two girls and he just "couldn't do it" and he wondered if he "was a man". Seems to me, THAT would have been a great time for HER to say "Well, when you love someone and you're married to them, that would be an appropriate feeling." But, no, she did not say that. She just nodded her head. He continues and says "I guess I want to be able to just have fun [sex] and not have to be in love or committed." I couldn't stand it and said "THAT is something to ASPIRE to?" He said "Well, no. That's not really who I am. But my sister thinks I fall in love to quickly, and that I should just be alone." WTF?! The counselor could have done so much with all of that. She could have explored why he wants to have shallow relationships. Why he is afraid of intimacy. Why he would want to relive being a teenager when he is 45. My H is no stranger to lots of sex. He started when he was 13. He's good looking and always had girls after him. He is not some high-school band geek that just finally realized he was cute.

ARGH! It is just so frustrating! He already has told SS that we're "off" again. And he told him that he is going thru a developmental stage. That f'ing boils my blood like you can't imagine. As much as SS wants us back together, he said I should broaden my horizons and go out on some dates. SS actually tried to call him out on some of the bull that H was spouting-- said "look, you had your chance to be on your own already; you made a commitment-- figure out what is holding you back- don't 'blame' it on this "stage"." Of course, it fell on deaf ears.

I just picked up an ebook about getting "Unstuck". I'm pretty excited about the "soul letter" concept; basically you write a letter *for your eyes only* that goes thru the anger, sadness, blame, wishes, and ends with love. I'm doing it justice...well, we'll see if it works before I sing it's praises.

Anywhooo- thanks for checking in. If you have any ideas about the alternate world; let me know.:)

[Trixi]

H said today at MC he really thinks we should just file and move on.

Counselor asked how that made me feel and I said angry, frustrated, but that I wasn't distraught. This isn't the first time he has said that and eventually he comes back. Not that I expect him to this time, it's just that he has said he is going before and so today's thing wasn't like some HUGE shock to me.

The difference is- I went on a date. That's right. I did. A guy I met at a meetup months ago is moving across the country and said he would have asked me out long ago if I had been in a different place. I said I would have said 'yes' if he would have asked and I was in a different place. So, we decided to go out this week while he is back in town packing for his big move. Initially, I said 'yes' to the date because I knew it would be "safe" since he is leaving town. No worries about things progressing too far or getting messy.

We held hands and kissed a little (very little) bit. The important thing (to me) is that I felt some butterflies. it gave me hope that somewhere out there is someone that I will like that will like me back.

Am I sad that my H doesn't want to try? Of course. But, at this point, I have done all I can. And more. I don't think it's right to D. BUT, as I said today in counseling- I have been released. I did not break the commitment. I have no more moral obigation to keep trying to resurrect a dead horse.

Thing of it is, even in counseling he said that there was a part of him that wanted to get back with me. And he turns to the counselor and says "I mean, look at her.She's a great woman. I love her."
Of course, there was a "but" to follow. "But I haven't been committed to her for so long; I just don't want to be married and try to make a long term thing of this."
He was careful to always add "right now in my life" "for now" "how I feel right now".

H came over after the appointment to pick up my (frozen) prairie dog so he can bury her at the the other house. I was mostly strong; only teared up a couple times. He hugged me a lot. Kissed my cheeks. He'll go to counseling on his own next week to see if they can figure out why he always comes back. He said that when he comes back he always feels safe, accepted, happy....and then he says "Wow. I know it sounds crazy for me to leave. I don't get it." Yeah. Me neither.

BUT, if I look at it realistically, there is no place for me in his life. He hurts me over and over with his self-absorbed actions.

Time to move on.

[Sara]

Good for you. Funny, we talk about the walkaways being in a fog, but maybe there is a fog around the LBS too. I see your fog clearing.

[Kimmie Lee]

So glad you went out on a date, Trixie.

Life is too short to spend it being jerked around.

[Dom R]

H said today at MC he really thinks we should just file and move on.
...

The difference is- I went on a date. That's right.
...
We held hands and kissed a little (very little) bit. The important thing (to me) is that I felt some butterflies. it gave me hope that somewhere out there is someone that I will like that will like me back.

[H will] go to counseling on his own next week to see if they can figure out why he always comes back.
....
BUT, if I look at it realistically, there is no place for me in his life. He hurts me over and over with his self-absorbed actions.

Time to move on.

What a freaking idiot your H is.
He doesnt need to figure out "why he always comes back". He needs to figure out "why he keeps trying to leave a person who treats him nicely and loves him".
And the answer is obvious, and has been for a long time:
Ye olde "fear of commitment", and just plain selfishness.

This will probably be my last post here for a long while.
No lasting positive change in my situation; still the same old crap. Some of it worse.
I've gotten tired of dealing with the same old excuses just as you have.
3 years! Blah.
[seems like lots of old-timer people on here are going on a Spring Cleaning thing!]

Maybe I'll post a 6month update

I hope you enjoy your life of freedom, with someone who actually treats you decently, and appreciates you, when it comes, Trixi

[Trixi]

Dom!!!!!!!!!!! thanks for popping in. I hope you see this before you drop off the board for the 6 months.
I appreciate all the times you tried to help me; i wish I could have been some sort of help to you and I am sorry to hear that your sitch isn't improving. It's exhausting. In some ways, I feel lighter now. I have started to really clean and throw crap out; I was depressed and I know it. I am still sad, but not depressed.

If you are ever in the alternate world, maybe there is a way to say "hi" over there.

I wish you all the best and hope that you will come back, check in and update.
(((Dom)))

[Trixi]

So, as I mentioned earlier, he had said he thought he wanted to proceed towards Divorce in our counseling session on Thursday.

Today he asked me (and my daughter) to go to Easter at his parents' house. WHA'????

I called him up and basically said "WTF are you thinking?" and he says "well, that we're family and Son is going to be over here and we should spend the holiday together." I said "Yeah. That's what a FAMILY does. But you don't want the family anymore. We don't get to spend holidays together anymore."
And he had the nerve to say "Oh! 14 years together and you just toss it all away like it means nothing to you!!"

O. M. G. Of course, I threw that back in his face and said he had some real kahunas to *dare* to say that to *me*. He then said that he *had* tried. blah blah blah. And that this is no walk in the park for him. This is really hard on him, too. He asked if I was always thinking about it and if I was "consumed" with our sitch and I said that I did think about it, but I'm not going to slit my wrists or anything. Then he says that he thinks a lot about it too. :eyeroll: I supppose I could be compassionate and "understand" that he is clearly very confused and that it must be difficult for him....but I don't feel like being compassionate right now.

Mostly I feel pissed right now. I am also royally pissed at his parents. And I told him so. I said that I feel like they should bow down at my feet and apologize. That I have been a fantastic mother to SS driving hours to the rehab place, that it was ME that had to encourage H to attend the family counseling, driving H around when he had the DUI issues and they (his parents) judge and disrespect me and I don't like it. H admitted that he "hasn't probably told them everything" that I have done to help him and SS. I told H I am not looking to cash in chips or get an award, but they clearly have the wrong impression about me. He agreed and said he would say something to them.

Of course there was lots of accusation tossing back and forth. (Who did what to who first). Initially he said that this situation is ALL about him and not about me. But then he started talking about how he was mad about this or that from the past. Near the end of the convo I said that I was very angry that me being sick is being held against me and he said "no, I understand you were sick." And I said "I would believe you, accept you keep talking about how you "checked out" when I was sick and so you've been "checked out" for so long now, you don't know how to do anything different. That seems just totally unfair to me. I couldn't physically do anything any different; you've been making choices."

H said he is "just asking me to give him time to be alone and really figure things out." And if it turns out he made a mistake he'll be back and hope I'm available.

Stepson was diagnosed with MS a couple days ago. I am going to go to Easter so that I can see SS.
If SS wasn't JUST diagnosed with MS, I probably would have skipped the whole Easter thing, but he really needs the support and is anxious to see my D.

My H is a total idiot. I know, in his mind, he isn't. He seems to think we live in a made for TV movie or something....