Is it "what's this...what a jerk he is for doing this now"? or "what is this...I don't recognize this niceness and love"? or something entirely different? perhaps a bit of both....perhaps a bit of who is this guy and why doesn't he stay? I think you'd understand better if you saw the movie....jack finds all the excitement of christmas town over whelming...looking here there and everywhere...what's this...what's this, he likes it, wants it, wants to make it his own.
oh...did I misread your "tone"?
Are you looking at it with awe and wonder and wanting it to last? Or are you doubting it? I think I ASSumed the latter but it sounds like it's more the former? the former...you'd have to see the movie to fully appreciate what I mean by "what's this"
Quote: maybe it isn't that you get so "fed up" ll...maybe it's that when you retreat you give him room to try some things out...? make some overtures of his own? I don't think you quiet understand me sage, I am not at his feet...I am here doing what I do...
There's a good chance that I'm not understanding.... so bear with me if you want! gladly
Quote: he is still here just doing what he does..in fact right now he's probably asleep on the damn couch AGAIN...I've decided once again...screw him...I will not spend my life in front of a tv just to spend time with a man who is asleep..I will read or go out or do whatever I want to do and leave him there to catch flies. A week or so of that and I get..."maybe we could go to the drive in sat" I continue to do my own thing thereafter and today I get..."why don't you see if your mom can baby sit and well go out again sat night" so it does seem that I have to be an uncaring, cold typical w who just doesn't care in order for my h to take any initiative.
so....I guess the leap I'm having trouble with is how does "letting h do his own thing while I go off and do mine" equate to being an "uncaring, cold typical wife"?? because I see alot of wives who make plans with their friends or go off shopping or do their own thing and have little regard for their h's, they don't consider them when they make their plans..he is after all just the guy who works and pays the bills, the guy who's underwear they fold. Is it because you're pissed off while you're doing it? no it's because I'm sad when I'm doing it...I'd like to have a bit more of a r with h than...put kids to bed and retreat to our own corners of the room and my eventually going to bed alone unless of course I decide to wake him from the couch and bring him upstairs like another kid in the house just that he's to big to carrry.
Because, to me, letting h sleep on the couch or watch sports or relax in some other way while you go off and do your thing could be construed as caring, not trying to change him, accepting him for who he is, all kinds of wonderful stuff...and perhaps THAT's how he's interpreting and responding to it? ok so it may be an ASSumption on my part...but sure sometimes he sees it that way but I'd be willing to bet that other times he see's it as...oh crap LL's gettting bothered by my falling asleep so she's ignoring me...I better give a little ie. attempt to make plans or suggest taking the kids out to dinner.
Quote: I would like for him to want to spend time with me this all just feels like ok well she's not happy, she's pulled away...maybe I'll take her out and then I'll get myself out of the dog house for a while. to be honest I was shocked at his suggestion for a repeat this saturday.
So...you're making a lot of ASSumptions about why h is behaving in a certain way...I'm certainly doing that too...and goodness knows you'd know better...right??? would you be able to look at h's behavior with an unbiased eye? I do my best, but there are times when well it just is what it is.
Quote: You can stop the cycle I think...it takes two (I think) to perpetuate it. the only way to stop it is to become content with the status quo and never actually become comfortable and feel safe enough to express my love to h..only indifference. because it is when I start to inititate hugs or hello calls or anything that he pulls away.
OK...let me try this...maybe the cycle isn't 2 actions long...maybe it's more than that...so maybe it isn't
LL initiates hugs and kisses h pulls away
but maybe it's
LL initiates hugs and kisses h pulls away LL does XYZ h stays away
What is XYZ in the above cycle? LL feels rejected and doubtful Do YOU pull away? eventually Do YOU get peeved? no I get saddend by the lack of mutualness in the r Do YOU try harder to get closer? in the past I would have but as a result of everything it's hard enough to initiate anything in the first place so I typically back off easily at first not mad just well just All of those things seem perfectly normal and expected but what if the next time h pulls away, you did a 180? 180..LL doesn't even go into the family room...LL will take a shower after son and h and immediately go to lr and start reading.
LL -- I know I've mentioned it before...have you read mars and venus???? It talks a lot about men pulling away...(also women ebbing and flowing, too). i used to (long before all the crapola) catch him on tv and I listend, I bought the book as h started to come home...but I'll admit to not reading the whole thing...just kinda skimming.
I KNOW for me that when I am affectionate with h and he pulls away I do one of two extremes...either I pursue him with expectations OR I really, really distant myself. Neither works very well... what does seem to work for us is if I can stay sort of neutral while he's distancing. the neutral feeling is my distancing...but then all my expectations and desires are stuffed almost to the point where I'm not interested even if h does make an attempt. I don't like that feeling but what can I do.
Quote: He IS giving a little (a lot?) he is giving just enough to get by ... he's asked you to do stuff a couple of times in the last few weeks..what you've been hoping for, right??? what I've been asking for for YEARS...phases of trying nothing, asking directly, making vauge suggestions etc...all without reading books...now when I'm pretty close to just residing myself to being a wife and mother...sitting in a room alone reading books and thinking of crafty ways to decorate while my h sits in another room and falls asleep watching whatever sporting even happens to be on occassionally talking on the phone to buddie this is when h decides to ask me to do something? but mind you he will sit on that couch and fall asleep every night but that one so I will go out with someone I don't really know.
so...am I reading this correctly? Are you irked by the "too little, too late" phenomenon? not so much the too little too late....more the too little and not often enough. it seems that our little phases of spending time and h's actually asking me to go somewhere are usually come around after I've decided somewhere in my mind that I'll put up with all this until the kids are grown and then I'm out of here.
so bear with me if you want! gladly 
what does seem to work for us is if I can stay sort of neutral while he's distancing. the neutral feeling is my distancing...but then all my expectations and desires are stuffed almost to the point where I'm not interested even if h does make an attempt. I don't like that feeling but what can I do. 
