I get your point about MC and needing both to be ready. You say that it changes the sitch and I guess you are right. My question is how do you/we deal with it?
Do we go yelling and screaming and say stop it? Do we wait it out? Do we turn our heads and run the other way?
My sitch is an EA with a married man 14 yrs older who I believe, she is not physical with (gut). I feel I (she)cannot move forward until that is subsided.
So, if Making_IT has a similar sitch... How do we deal with it?
I agree with you, just don't know how to move forward.
You will ask the question "can I get over it" "either way"? and I say yes! Does that make me weak? I have 2 children and 15 years. What will I find if I run. Another relationship that ended because she had an affair on her first H and he could not get over it?
Making_IT, I hope this helps both of us. I am certainly not trying to hijack your thread, but help us both.
Me - 35 W - 32 (EA with OM) M - 13 1/2 D - 11 S - 9 ILYBNILWY - January 2009 Status - Limbo
Well, I just got in from the gym after my visit with my wife tonight. As I suspected, she asked if we could "pause" our marriage counselling sessions for a while. She didn't rule it out for the future, but said she doesn't know if she wants to work on things or not. She didn't feel that we would get much out of counselling with her in that mindset.
We talked for a long while about a lot of things. Mostly it was about her negative perception of our marriage the last two years. When I asked her why she never told me that she was unhappy in our marriage, she said that she felt like she told me by hinting at the end of our arguments. Also, she said that she refuses to be in a marriage where you have to threaten to leave. I told her talking about your feelings isn't a threat to leave, but she stood her ground and I didn't challenge her. I explained to her that my mind was focused on what we were arguing about and not associating her comments with our marriage as a whole. Additionally, we very rarely had any arguments at all and when we did it would usually start over some silly thing that I couldn't understand why she would get mad at. I guess looking back, it wasn't that silly thing that she was upset about but there was more to it. As usual, hindsight is 20/20.
I brought up the topic of OM just to feel her out. She still stands firm that there never has been a physical or emotional connection. She did say that she sees qualities in other marriages that she wishes we could have exhibited. I still don't believe that there is OM involved. She is clinging too tightly to me and is holing up in her apartment. I won't let my guard down but I still don't sense that right now. She said that she is scared of thinking that the grass is greener on the other side and that she will see that it isn't. This seems like a positive thought to me.
She did say that she wants to keep communications going (dinner, movie, phone, text, etc...). This is a tough part for me, because I want to stay in the front of her thoughts 24/7 but I also feel that maybe I should practice the detachment that is spoken of here. Is it too soon for me to detach and GAL?
I still feel love there. We hugged and kissed several times. She also has noticed some of the small changes that I have made, but it kind of backfired on me. She found out that I went to an art festival last weekend and said that she would have loved to do things like that with me, but I would have never done that if we were still together. She said that my more social lifestyle changes make her sad because this is what she was wanting two years ago. My rebuttal is, "Why didn't you just come out and tell me?". She usually responds with she doesn't want to be in a relationship where you have to ask/tell the spouse to do things. The other spouse should just know. This type of reasoning is impossible to rationalize with and seems totally out of her character.
I think for now, I am going to try and stay focused on myself and being active with minimal contact with her. These visits really take a lot out of me and set me back. I am still not sure what to think about the marriage counselling. I bet that thought will be swirling through my head now!
Take Care
M 30 WAW 29 T 15 M 5 ILYBNILWY 3/8/09 Separated 3/14/09
Keep your head up. It seems like a good sign that she is affectionate towards you and I think you need to believe there is nobody else.
Your situation is so close to mine and I just want to tell her "you can divorce anytime, but you have my attention and we need to try hard to fix this" "try hard now and divorce later... what is a few months out of 15 years together".
Like you, I see in hindsight what she is saying, but I also say we had a great marriage, period. If she wanted more we could have talked about it differently. My MIL and FIL said to me the other day that they understand her point, but divorce is not justified. This is hurting a lot of people, especially my children.
All I ask is that we try, "stay and be happy". We were happy once and we have all the hard stuff behind us. What hurts me the most is she will go find a new relationship and will work hard on that to get what she wants. Why not work hard on a "sure" thing, US.
Just keep going and never stop trying. Use what the folks here say and know you did all you could. Remember, no regrets...
Me - 35 W - 32 (EA with OM) M - 13 1/2 D - 11 S - 9 ILYBNILWY - January 2009 Status - Limbo
I do not see any backfires at all, all positive. The grass is not always greener. Next time you do something and she says, boy I wish you could have done that 2 years ago, ask her, next time would you like me to give you a call before I go and come with?
She is scared, but i definitely would not rule out the OM scenario, but if she is telling the truth, BIG IF, then it all sounds very positive to me.
If she does not want to go to MC that is OK, just go with the flow man, you are doing great!
One of the great things about my wife and my MC is she has learned that Men in general are stupid and realizes that she actually has to tell me things for me to understand what she needs.
By the way it is not too early to detach and gal, which I think you are doing great, you have already peaked her interest in the first couple of weeks with the art fair and so forth! Maybe go to a play, boy that would set her off!
One of the great things about my wife and my MC is she has learned that Men in general are stupid and realizes that she actually has to tell me things for me to understand what she needs.
In my experience this is a common communication problem. My W also expected me to read her mind and "figure it out" when something was bothering her. She is learning that I (and men in general) am pretty dense and subtlety doesn't work. Heck, sometimes I need to be hit with a 2x4 if she wants something!
Me40 WAW37 M18 T20 S18,14 D13 EA Bomb 6/08 Sep 11/20/08 Ret 08/09 Sep/Filed 11/09
Yeah, sometimes you have to hit me, but once I am hit I will do anything for her. I can see the women out there saying why do I have to hit you! We are very different animals that is why.
Next time you do something and she says, boy I wish you could have done that 2 years ago, ask her, next time would you like me to give you a call before I go and come with?
Burt
Actually she did say that she would like for me to invite her on activities. One example that she gave was that she would like to come meet me and my workout buddies after we work out at a little grill that we frequent. The second week of our separation she met us up there and we had some good laughs. It does take a lot out of me when we leave our separate ways. The state of limbo isn't very fun to say the least.
That is where I am torn with detaching or inviting her to these occasions. It seems like two different approaches and I see pros with both.
I sure hope my books get here today!
M 30 WAW 29 T 15 M 5 ILYBNILWY 3/8/09 Separated 3/14/09
The books got in yesterday and I read the DR from cover to cover. I certainly need to go back to some of the sections that I had marked.
My W called last night while I was at my friend's house as we were headed to the gym. She asked how many airline miles that I had with Continental. She said that she may want to fly up to her mom's house for the weekend to get away. I told her that was fine and that she could use them. Then she asked what I was planning on doing with them (the bait). I reminded her that I had been saving them for the two of us to go on an international trip together (which we had talked about over and over again), but that the miles were there to be used.
Then she goes off on me about how we had all of these airline miles and couldn't even go away for the weekend before she left(she sets the hook). Stupid me, trying to defend, said that she knew we were supposed to use those for an international trip together. I also reminded her of our trip to Catalina Island together. She didn't want to hear it, she used this as another way to paint a bad picture out of something that was supposed to be good for the two of us. I listened and didn't argue any more. We got off the phone because she was meeting a mutual friend of ours for dinner (the wife of one of our close couple friends).
It feels like she is trying to justify her actions and decisions by having events like these. She keeps saying that she is angry because none of her friends or family saw that she was unhappy and was ready to leave. If she didn't talk to anyone and always put a smile on, how would they know? I didn't realize that she was unhappy in our marriage until all of this went down.
My W keeps telling me that she is confused and doesn't know if she wants to work on re-building our marriage. All of the little negative resentments that she has had over the years and bottled up have reached their boiling point. This usually comes across to me as that she doesn't want to rebuild anything. Maybe I shouldn't be so negative, but that is what my gut feeling is telling me. Her mother and two close friends (one that went to dinner last night with her) that she has confided in have spoke with me in detail about what they think is going on. They both feel like she is confused right now and didn't get the picture that the W had decided that she didn't want to try. Although they haven't directly stated it, they are hurt that the W didn't confide any of these feelings/thoughts with them prior to everything going down.
The W called again this morning about the airline miles and I sent her the account info via e-mail. I told her that I admit I wasn't perfect and never will be, but that she shouldn't attack me like that when I am around others. She got very upset and said once again that she sees our friends and family as a barrier for her to come back. I told her that nobody is mad at her and that she needs to talk to them to see that for herself, but she builds negative images in her mind of what other's think.
It hurts me to see her hurting and scared right now. I know that these outbursts towards me are because I am the only one that she will vent like that too. It is hard to listen to all of the negativity, but I am willing to keep doing it if it will help her come to terms. My concern is that these outbursts aren't helping her and are just further justifying her anger towards our situation right now and her decision to leave.
I will keep at it! Gym 7:30-10:30 tonight!
M 30 WAW 29 T 15 M 5 ILYBNILWY 3/8/09 Separated 3/14/09
For some reason the mornings and nights are the hardest times for me. I really miss sleeping next to her and us doing our morning routine together.
I haven't had any contact with her since she called yesterday morning (not that the thought hasn't crossed my mind 2,367 times!). I don't know if she decided to go to her mom's place this weekend or not, but I have been debating if I should get her a little something for Easter. I don't want to push her away, but I also don't want to give her justification that I don't care about her. Would it not be a good idea to get her something? Any suggestions?
M 30 WAW 29 T 15 M 5 ILYBNILWY 3/8/09 Separated 3/14/09
The W sent me a one line e-mail yesterday stating that she was unable to book a flight back to her mom's for the weekend. I replied back that I was sorry. I also invited her over to the house this weekend because several family members were coming down and we are going to smoke a brisket and do the family thing. I also suggested that maybe we could find a neutral activity to go enjoy together (movie, comedy show, etc...). Something that wasn't too intimate where we had to sit and discuss everything.
Unfortunately I didn't give myself time before replying to her message. I just fired back a quick response trying to get us to see each other. I had a lot of regret after doing that and made a deal with myself that I won't respond to any e-mails until a couple of hours afters. I never received a response from her and really didn't expect to get one.
This detachment is tough stuff! Every time I feel like I am making good headway and set my mind, I do something silly and slide right back. The slips are becoming much less frequent though. I will keep getting back up and dusting myself off.
In the recent days I am finding that my thoughts are shifting somewhat. Ultimately, it comes down to the fact that I am not ok with how she went about abandoning her marriage, home, responsibilities, family and friends. It is obvious that she didn't consider the consequences of her actions and didn't have a realistic view of what it was going to be like. Not that I love her any less or don't want to make this marriage work, but that it is ok for me to see this situation as it is. She is frustrated and confused because she is trying to justify her decisions and actions, yet nobody is buying it. The bottom line is that she should had came out and talked about her dissatisfaction with someone prior to acting so aggressively.
Today is a day of boundaries for myself. This must happen for me to continue on with any sort of a normal life. She knows my stance about wanting to save this marriage and that is all that I can do. The more I pull,,,, the more she pushes.
Thanks for letting me vent! ;-)
M 30 WAW 29 T 15 M 5 ILYBNILWY 3/8/09 Separated 3/14/09
