WAW - Very confused and devastated - pt 6

[MrBond]

She has to start off in victim mode. Let her get it out of her system. After awhile she's going to realize that she can't play the victim forever.

The cycle I'm referring to is the fact that she keeps blaming you for her past hurt, then you say you've changed and then she says she can't trust your changes, and then she says she has to leave to sort our her feelings and then you say you don't believe in D, etc.

It's been going like that for about a month now.

You broke one cycle when you made the changes. Now break this next cycle by letting go and letting her be her. Once she sees you're no longer part of the cycle, she's going to stop and wonder, what's going on?

"All the other times, she only talks when the counselor asks a specific question. Problem is I feel like I answer how I think things are going and then she responds with a very short answer."

Did she ever give you a firm answer as to why she's going? It still sounded like she's going just for you, although I suspect a small part of her wants to go to hear suggestions on your R to see how it applies to herself. That's why I think the C needs to concentrate on her. Divert as much stuff as possible to her and about her.

[confusedinpa]

Well, we went to dinner before counseling like we always do. We had some light chat and laughed about a few things. At the end she asked me what I told her dad. I should have known her dad would have talked to her.

Before we went in she said going every week is getting to be too much. She feels nothing new is being brought up so she wants to go every other. I just said if that's what she wants to do because she should go only if she wants to

In the session I tried to keep the focus on her. She said she's frustrated that we don't have agreement on custody or what she's taking. Our counselor talked about how we need to communicate to get our feelings out. She did point out that she feels we are struggling with the discussions because there is still care there

We wound up talking about our individual anger and how we each handled it during our conversations. I said I haven't gotten angry. Only 3 times in our marriage. My wife said she was angry often but was afraid to express it. We spent a lot of time exploring that one as to why she didn't express it

One example was how I used to sleep in on Sat AM till almost noon. She said she would be angry every weekend. She would only say something when she let it build up over several months. Then I would get up an hour earlier. This cycle continued until she gave up when I started getting up at 9

I told her I didn't know she was mad about that and in retrospec I should have asked her what time she wanted me to get up, vs guessing/assuming

Our counselor said we need to get comfortable expressing our emotions, not at a personal attack level but just the true emotion

On the way home she said that she was getting frustrated to the point that she's going to stop being nice. She said she could have gotten a truck and just emptied the house. I said I didn't feel that was any different than what she was doing now, its just slower.

She said she's still angry and doesn't want to be around me which is why she wants to leave. She said she's going into 2 years of debt to set up her place (oh oh I need to call my lawyer about that one). She said if she wasn't so mad, she wouldn't do something like that

Tough session. She's not going next week. Oh well, whatever

Now I've learned she is mad at me. That's nothing new.

Now what?

[MrBond]

Seriously, I would have her go to anger management class. I don't think it's anger, it's probably more like frustration.

What on earth is she constantly angry about? She has to figure that out and stop blaming you. Even the stuff about you not getting up early enough on the weekends. She should have just said something then. Period. It's not your fault and mind reading is not part of M.

"Before we went in she said going every week is getting to be too much. She feels nothing new is being brought up so she wants to go every other."

Cut her free from the C. She's just going to keep getting angrier about going as she feels like she's being "forced" to go. Let her free from it before she starts blaming you for "making" her go.

"Our counselor said we need to get comfortable expressing our emotions, not at a personal attack level but just the true emotion."

I would change this to "get comfortable expressing what you want". Emotions don't rule everything. Expressing what you want does.

"She said she's still angry and doesn't want to be around me which is why she wants to leave. She said she's going into 2 years of debt to set up her place (oh oh I need to call my lawyer about that one). She said if she wasn't so mad, she wouldn't do something like that"

I would have stopped her right there. You see how she's blaming you for everything? Even putting her in debt. Stop her and get her facts straight. You can't keep being treated like a doormat. Women don't respect the doormat, they just scrape their sh*t on it. There's your 2x4.

Don't be afraid to show her that or else she's going to start taking more stuff from you and then when you protest, she's going to go back to her victim mode.

That's pretty much all I heard in your car conversation. Her being the victim.

[confusedinpa]

Seriously, I would have her go to anger management class. I don't think it's anger, it's probably more like frustration.

What on earth is she constantly angry about? She has to figure that out and stop blaming you. Even the stuff about you not getting up early enough on the weekends. She should have just said something then. Period. It's not your fault and mind reading is not part of M.

This came up in more detail during the session. My wife said she didn't really press it as she didn't want me to just be up with an attitude. Our counselor even said she should have just said what she wanted becuase how it was handled didn't work

Cut her free from the C. She's just going to keep getting angrier about going as she feels like she's being "forced" to go. Let her free from it before she starts blaming you for "making" her go.

When she told me about every other week, I just said if that's what you want to do. I reminded her that she should go only if she wants to.

I would change this to "get comfortable expressing what you want". Emotions don't rule everything. Expressing what you want does.

You are right. I think I misquoted my counselor. Good catch

"She said she's still angry and doesn't want to be around me which is why she wants to leave. She said she's going into 2 years of debt to set up her place (oh oh I need to call my lawyer about that one). She said if she wasn't so mad, she wouldn't do something like that"

I would have stopped her right there. You see how she's blaming you for everything? Even putting her in debt. Stop her and get her facts straight. You can't keep being treated like a doormat. Women don't respect the doormat, they just scrape their sh*t on it. There's your 2x4.

Don't be afraid to show her that or else she's going to start taking more stuff from you and then when you protest, she's going to go back to her victim mode.

That's pretty much all I heard in your car conversation. Her being the victim.

Crap - I missed that one. I should have reminded her this is her decision to leave and not work on the marriage. Thanks for the 2x4

I have to remember to "correct" her perception of what she was taking out of the house. Of her list of stuff, only the dinning room set was hers coming into the marriage. I should just tell she can feel free to take what she came with. Anything that we acquired together, we need to discuss and agree. I don't want to press this as adversarial as that would destroy any chance, if there is any really left. I'll have to really think about how to handle that one

Thanks for the quick input/feedback

[MrBond]

No problem. Also, isn't it her time of the month soon? I think you mentioned it earlier. She could very well be PMSing. These are some really bad mood swings your W has got.

[confusedinpa]

No problem. Also, isn't it her time of the month soon? I think you mentioned it earlier. She could very well be PMSing. These are some really bad mood swings your W has got.

Stuck808,

Haha - yes it is coming up. Plus she's still hurting from falling in the garage yesterday. She is really confusing. You seem to be on a roll with these "sexist" comments ;-p (I saw your post on the other thread)

I had brought up in counseling how confusing it was as at times she seems hurt/angry/sad and then she seems almost joyful (ie shopping for flat screen TV or other stuff for her apt). She got mad about that she said in the car. I just said that was how I felt. I said in the counseling session that when I saw her that way, it was hurtful.

[MrBond]

Actually in this case I really wasn't trying to be sexist. I just remembered your W had some really bad ones and it affects her mood ALOT! So these sudden swings from one to the other could be a result of this.

The more space you give her now, the sooner she'll be back.

[confusedinpa]

The more space you give her now, the sooner she'll be back.

I know I'm not suppose to count down the clock, but she's suppose to move out in less than 2 weeks so she will have all the space she will need. I am really torn about it. If it wasn't for the kids, I would be totally ok with giving her the space to figure things out. That's why I'm struggling so much with her leaving. I think I've detached enough from her to let her go. I just can't bear to think of only seeing my kids 1/2 the time.

Nothing too remarkable this morning. Same routine - wife got ready and then I did the same to go to work. We chatted but not as much as the other mornings, she was still really tired and I'm worried the stomach bug I had last week is coming back. She showed me how brusises from her fall into the recycle bin were progressing. We both wound up downstairs with the kids.

Before she went upstairs, she turned back to me and ask me to crack her back. I've been responding by "Sure, if that's what you want". I then hugged her to crack her back. There wasn't a lot of emotion on it either of us - I didn't try to give her a kiss on the check (partly because I didn't want to).

I just realized that I have to be careful of my response. One of her grips in the past was that when she would tell me her mom could watch the kids so we could go out, I would just say "OK, if that's what you want to do" She said it was hurtful as she thought that I was only doing it because she wanted to go, not because I wanted to go. I explained to her that I was trying to say I love her so much that I would be happy doing whatever she wanted us to do as long as we were together. I guess I wasn't clear nor did she speak up. This is another example of how our communication was just a mess....

I'm actually not sure if I'll miss her. Like I said, I think I'm in a pretty scary place emotionally with my wife. Perhaps she was right, that I really did stop loving her a long time ago but I just thought it was so comfortable, I didn't do anything about it.

I know Coach had said this is the normal flow of emotions that I will go through. I hope the feelings come back for both of us. I do know they won't come back for her as long as she is still feeling angry/hurt. Guess that's where the time and space can be helpful.....

[confusedinpa]

I've been thinking about the debt that my wife is running up to setup her new place. I'm torn as I would expect once we get to an equity settlement in the divorce process, she would likely get the house equity as well as a chunk of cash from my end (in PA it's 50/50 split).

I was thinking about getting ahead of the curve by offering her some cash to get her out of the debt (knowing her she put it all on credit cards so the interest rate is crazy).

I know I don't want to help her get setup but I do want to make sure my boys are taken care of properly. Is this too much of a "nice guy" attitude and I'm becoming a doormat or what?

What I'm struggling with is would I offer it to her if I knew she wasn't going to get it later anyway. It is something that my wife complained about how I would never give my time for people and would be more apt to cut a check to help them, so I'm worried that's going to reinforce that behavior.

Perhaps I could go the route of just take whatever furniture that she wants (as she would get it anyway) so she would have to buy as little as possible (even if means giving up on the boundary that I set with the mattress and box spring).

Any thoughts?

[confusedinpa]

Just more journaling - doesn't seem to be much interest in my thread. Guess everyone's getting tired of dealing with it like I am. I'm trying to stay focused on my 180 and realize that I have slipped somewhat on getting a life (most of my time has been spent with either just the kids or as a "family"). I've got to start going to the gym again.

Anyway, she sent me an email this morning asking how my stomach was doing (I thought the stomach bug from last week was coming back). I did answer after about 30 minutes and asked how she was recovering from falling in the garage last nite. She responded right waway. I was tied up in a meeting so it took about an hour for me to respond.

Oh well, very awkward these times are.

I must remind myself that healing her is something that only she can do. All I can do is give her the space and time. I also need to remind myself that only I can choose to be happy. While she used to make me feel loved, now I have 2 wonderful sons that will make me feel loved. I've also reconnected with my mom, aunt and cousin during this ordeal. They will also make me feel loved.

I know I need to go Dark/Dim when she does move out. I asked my mom and aunt to come over that week to be there for me. Just so I won't be alone in my house.

I need to be strong - that's a reality.

Any thoughts/suggestions/encouragement will be greatly appreciated.