Love Is Whatever You Can Still Betray

[Greek]

She just sucks you into her mess so easily. That you know all that info about her realtor suggests you listened to her tell you all about it. Make yourself UNAVAILABLE for her play-by-play on how she's going to bust up your family. Grab YOUR Crackberry and say "Oh, sorry to interrupt but I HAVE to take this call." Being 'separated' and living together must be a much bigger challenge in terms of being unavailable when she wants to spread mess but SEND THAT MESSAGE TO HER. I would not have asked about how the house hunting went. And if she brought up what she looked at or decided on, I would have one question only: is it in a safe neighborhood b/c you are concerned for the children. Although I know a lot gets lost and skewed in text, your posts read like she sucks you into topics that you would do well to resist.

Answer to her 'pullin the trigger' comment: You can stop this anytime you want.

My .02 ~~~ keep the date for Thursday. Look fab. Enjoy YOURSELF at the gallery. If she cancels the outing, YOU GO ANYWAY!

Cheers ~~~

[SmileysPerson]

This is a very good post, Greek, and I'm reading it a couple times. I know others have asked this question, and I've asked it of DB Coach as well, but I still can't get my head around it.

W comes into my office to tell me the sad story of the realtor. You sort of have to do a visual here. The office is rectangle standing on end. My L-shaped desk is in the lower-right-hand corner, looking out a window. The entrance to the office is at the upper-left-hand corner. So she stands in the entrance to talk. I can't split without brushing past her -- rude, since she's in the middle of speaking. I don't have a crackberry, just a land-line, so that would be a phony.

Do I just cut her off? "I don't want to know." "That's your business." That sort of thing?

And how do I square that with listening / validating / and (most importantly) not being an ass?

[Coach]

SP,

And, perhaps more importantly, given what I've done in GAL and 180, how might I modify my DB approach to keep the DB going?

You are DBing great in the GAL arena. Two areas I see to work on, detaching and validating. You talk all about your W in your posts expecting her to change. It's not a linear equation - if I do this then she will do that. Do the things you want to do because they are beneficial for you. What we DAM/LBS don't realise is how far ahead of us our Ws are when it comes being detached. All the podperson talk is her just being detached, it's a coping mechanism. That's why people look for someone to validate their feelings(the BFF, WAR) when we are hurting and confused. If you repeat things she has told you that have been issues for you two then you validate her hurt feelings.
So how to validate- when she told you "things would be tough." JUMP all over that. "I agree things will be tough for you, the kids and me. I understand why you feel that way."

"who knows what might happen,"

"W I don't know what will happen, I just want you to be happy. If I have caused you to be unhappy then I will accept responsibility for it and work on whatever shortcomings I have to be a better man."

"if we found that we were crazy about each other again I wouldn't resist it,"

"I feel the same the way. I would love the opportunity to be the man you are crazy about. I am working to make myself irresistible to you." Read "His Needs Her Needs" great description on how to become irresisitible.

You really have to listen to validate, you are great with words use it to your advantage.

So. Given this. What would be an observable, small change?

She gets mad, sad, confused, looks at you like you are a pod person, reaches out, affection, wants to spend time with you, etc. So hard to see from your perspective.
DBing is hard work takes emotional, logical, spiritual and physical energy. So don't waste energy on negative things. Think thru your actions to avoid getting too emotional. Pray for wisdom and understanding. You can handle it.
Cheers
Coach

[Greek]

You're already an ass in her opinion so you can't go wrong here. JOKE! Just kidding although I guess the morsel of truth is that she MAY indeed already think that and you can't control that anyway

Thank you for the visual on the office. That helps. So she comes in and the topic is not one that you want to be involved with. I can picture you gently interrupting with a hand held out in front of you, "That is your business." OR "I'm not a contributor to that decision". No shouting. Clear. Controlled. She's in the corporate/business/professional world. She can handle it. What she wants at home from you is Oprah - cut that off. Make it business when it comes to the moves she is making which will result in your family being broken. You DO NOT have to be understanding or sympathetic or helpful with any effort she makes to leave the marriage. Gently interrupt and cut it off. I believe she is disrespectful to you in telling you those kinds of things. Insist that she observe your boundaries.

Listen and validate when SHE references your R. Talking to you about her realtor's happy divorced life is not R. Talking to you about hurt feelings she has toward something you did or said in the past = a great opportunity to say "I'm listening. Go on... I can see how you'd feel that way..." You surely can tell the difference between the business of getting out of the marriage and the business of peeling back layers to understand what's gone wrong in the marriage. Understand what's gone wrong - listen and validate - b/c she needs you to and guess what! YOU NEED TO KNOW THIS, TOO! Win, win These kinds of conversations, definitely do NOT interrupt - gently or otherwise. Say as little as possible. Listen. Look at her. Remember she is hurting and you cannot fix her. Listen and learn.

Cheers ~

[Sara]

This is a great opportunity! You pulled the trigger? Good. So you will now un-pull it. You misunderstood. You want to take time and explore this. You want to go back to MC or Retrouvaille. Big misunderstanding. No harm done. Let's not rush into anything. Call realtor and cancel the next outing...

[SmileysPerson]

@Coach:

Pray for wisdom and understanding.

Ah, well that would be the problem, wouldn't it? The HOA strictly forbids ritual animal sacrifice, which is the closest thing we non-believing heathen have to prayer.

Damn. I knew there was a catch.

Good thoughts all the way around, Coach. So another imponderable that I can't get my head around -- how do I (a) actively listen, "hear," and validate while simultaneously (b) not be paying attention / focusing on / etc.?

[SmileysPerson]

@Greek:

"I'm not a contributor to that decision"

That's very good. Clever. W would immediately parry and riposte, however, with "this decision is because of you," which would have me on the validate-defensive, no?

[SmileysPerson]

@Sara:

You pulled the trigger? Good. So you will now un-pull it. You misunderstood. You want to take time and explore this. You want to go back to MC or Retrouvaille. Big misunderstanding. No harm done. Let's not rush into anything.

Outstanding. Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Wonder if I could actually pull that one off without precipitating laughter?

Inquiring minds want to know.....

"Bigamy is having one wife too many. Monogamy is the same."
-- Oscar Wilde

[Coach]

how do I (a) actively listen, "hear," and validate while simultaneously (b) not be paying attention / focusing on / etc.?

You must pay attention. You must discern between opportunities and bait.

"this decision is because of you,"

You just mind read for your W. You might take a logical guess at what she might say but at least give her the opportunity to say she thinks or feels.
Here's your response if she were to say that, "Sorry, I am not responsible for your decisions." Goes back to Sara's point, she thinks you pulled the trigger. So clear that up. You only control how you respond, stop thinking and feeling for your W.

[Greek]

@Greek:

"I'm not a contributor to that decision"

That's very good. Clever. W would immediately parry and riposte, however, with "this decision is because of you," which would have me on the validate-defensive, no?

"Silence is one of the hardest arguments to refute." Try saying nothing. Let her thoughts fill the space you leave. You've got this volley going back and forth between two very bright people with an incredible arsenal of comebacks - what if you just did NOT HIT THE BALL BACK INTO HER COURT? What if you just let it bounce on your side and not play? That would be a 180, no?

Be clear. The decision to leave is hers. The hurt she feels which brings your marriage to this point is owned by both of you. The OM - she owns that completely. These are the real property settlements. The more you argue with her, the more the argument itself becomes the issue...and it's really not.

Defensiveness = never a good idea.
Root word of validate = valid.

Use good sense.
Cheers ~