Spellfire #4 - Sparks, but no Flames

[spellfire]

I feel like I am getting comfortable, and that is not a good thing for me. I need to push myself and keep changing for the better.

Weekly ML is nice, but once it starts it is completely about her. Odd considering she complains about being LD, and yet she is very demanding and selfish during the actual act. Once she has had enough she makes comments about hurrying up and finishing soon, which is a complete turn off.

[LG nm12]

Hi Mike,

I was going to reach out to you today because we haven't heard from you in a while.

You guys would benefit from Schnarch, I think. Did you read PM yet?

How do you get along outside the bedroom lately? Are things good?

Is there "sex" beyond the four sides of the bed? Are you flirtatious? Do you send sexy texts or do other stuff throughout the day?

It sounds like she is trying to give you what you want, but she doesn't understand what you *really* want. Do you talk to her (in a patient, loving way - nonreactive) about what you just wrote?

Lucky

[LG nm12]

P.S. Her telling you to hurry up and finish is more than a turn off, I would imagine. I know it would hurt my feelings tremendously.

It sounds like she is orgasm-focused. Better sex involves enjoying the entire connection and the entire exploration of each other. See Schnarch for more.

[pearlharbr]

Sorry you're having a rough time Spellfire. It does sound like a very frustrating situation. All I can do is try to think of things I would like xBF to do to put me more at ease. I know it would be helpful to me if he would tell me what he likes/wants when not already engaged in the act. Like just having a sexy conversation by candlelight before the clothes come off. Or just writing a letter or note with some ideas if it's too awkward to talk about at this point.

I know this may be a bit much for a manly man such as yourself but Oprah recently had a few shows about improving your sex life. You might want to check it out and perhaps your wife would browse through it, although I know she has been resistent to other things. You'll find the info here.

[spellfire]

Thanks LG and PH. I was feeling pretty down tbh, and having some insightful replies is helping me pick myself back up.

I have read some of PM, but I never finished it. I got a little burned out on reading. It is the kind of book you really need quiet time to concentrate, and I get so little of that. I will really try to pick it back up again.

Things are good outside the bedroom. Really good. There is no flirting, making out, romance however. She is still highly resistant to anything she thinks will turn sexual outside of the allocated "weekend slot". She is also quite resistant to discussing ML in spare time, although I admit to not really just putting my desires out there.

Time for more introspection. I keep saying "there is no time" and in a sense it is true, but there is no excuse for not trying really.

lol manly man. Def willing to check out anything that might help pearl, thx!

Two steps forward, one step back, two steps forward...

SF

[Bagheera]

Welcome back, Spellfire;

Two week ago, you wrote:

Actually...now I dig a little deeper, there is some resentment on my part. It is now not that she doesn't ML, but that it is just mercy sex. She is never really into it, and it's always "okay if we must", next "get it over with", and she never lays a hand on me (literally). It always is and has been me doing everything. I feel like she is a selfish lover, and that she sees it as "I am doing him a favor by letting him touch me".

And this week is more of the same....

I think that both you (above) and LuckGirl are right on with your thoughts that your wife is

(1) simply doing her once-a-week, service-the-husband, chore thing, and
(2) is entirely orgasm focused: get ME over with, then ask him to get himself over with.

You've got to find a way to break this routine, and work on showing her how to enjoy the entire story, not just the climax.

As you've shown in your posts, you're pretty much Mr. Nice Guy in all the things that you do for her, around the house, even keeping her vehicle fueled up for her. That's all fine -- you're doing your best to meet her needs and make her feel loved via your "acts of service." I do much the same for my wife. Continuing to work on more non-sexual, affectionate touch in the relationship is also good, particularly in your case.

However, how much of a masculine, assertive, alpha-male does she get to see in you?

I think you need to start bringing that man out more, particularly in the bedroom. In gradual steps, and watching how she responds closely, start taking charge in there and learn to TAKE what you want out of the encounter. In other words, stop waiting for her to 'give' you what you want --> begin to DEMAND it. You might be pleasantly surprised at how well she responds to this approach. I know that I was.

In my case, my wife had to sit me down and literally ask me to stop making her orgasm the -centerpiece- of the sexual encounter. It was putting pressure on her, and makes for repetitive, boring sexual encounters. She set me free to follow my own meandering path of pleasuring her, having her pleasure me, pleasuring the both of us together, and learning to enjoy the JOURNEY as much as the destination. It's not an easy mind-set for a man to adopt. I'm so goal oriented that I -still- tend to focus on her O and my O and how they are going to be achieved...and in so doing, short change us both.

There are times when my wife simply wants to be 'ravished,' feel my passion for her, and doesn't want me to slow down and try to carry her along with me; although in those cases, we do sometimes do grab the vibrator afterwards -- which is highly effective for her -- and 'finish' her off so she isn't left entirely hanging. Even so, the -journey- is the fun part for her, the vibe-O is just a touch of dessert. There are other times, when I am deliberately slow and alternate between peaking her, then peaking me, then back to her, and so forth -- but even then, the O's are the END of the symphony, not the centerpiece of it.

With regard to her not touching you -- you really do need to find a way to correct that. Deliberately take her hand and place it on you, guiding her and showing her what feels good to you. Another idea, and this may be VERY embarassing at first, but on one or two of those nights when you aren't going to ML, let her hold you (snuggle with you) while you masturbate, with the lights on, and let her see what you do for yourself. Women *DO* enjoy looking at you, touching you, playing with you, and pleasuring you, once they've gotten over their initial "Nice Girls Don't" resistance factor and have some notion what to do and how you like it. Oral pleasures can come later, but for now, you need to get her to take you in hand (or two) and pleasure YOU some too.

Bottom line: START being The Man in the bedroom, start taking charge and giving directions there -- for YOUR pleasure -- and stop letting her get away with the "chore sex" routine. And don't forget to -communicate- and talk about it, as uncomfortable as that is at first: she may tell you to be "happy with what you're getting," but you know that you AREN'T happy, and WHY --> tell her. I do know that this is hard to do, especially in the beginning phases of SSM recovery, but as everyone here recently reminded me, as the man, --> I <-- have to take charge and lead that recovery, else it ain't gonna happen, particularly with a naturally LD wife.

Take care,

-- B.

[spellfire]

And this week is more of the same....

I think that both you (above) and LuckGirl are right on with your thoughts that your wife is

(1) simply doing her once-a-week, service-the-husband, chore thing, and
(2) is entirely orgasm focused: get ME over with, then ask him to get himself over with.

Correct.

You've got to find a way to break this routine, and work on showing her how to enjoy the entire story, not just the climax.

Therein the challenge lies. She has already stated that sex is just a hassle. She isn't even interested in the climax, let alone the journey. If she is orgasm focused, it is because suddenly she started to feel it and/or she wants it to be done with asap.

As you've shown in your posts, you're pretty much Mr. Nice Guy in all the things that you do for her, around the house, even keeping her vehicle fueled up for her. That's all fine -- you're doing your best to meet her needs and make her feel loved via your "acts of service." I do much the same for my wife. Continuing to work on more non-sexual, affectionate touch in the relationship is also good, particularly in your case.

Acts of service are her primary love language. She has been telling me this for many years in various ways, but I fought her the entire time. Coming into the R I was not really a NG, and I am not in terms of my raw personality, but in this R I gradually allowed myself to become that. I think my W comes from a family of NGs and is used to men being a certain way. My FIL is classic. Like the book describes, the more I gave into her, the less she respected me. That dynamic is changing now, since I am reversing all the pandering to her demands that I fell into.

However, how much of a masculine, assertive, alpha-male does she get to see in you?

Initially in our R it was a lot. I was fiercely independent, traveling the world alone, depending only on myself and in control of my destiny. After I got married, we fought a lot. She wanted it all and for me to provide it. Over time I just got tired of all the fighting and started giving in. now she is seeing more of the old me.

I think you need to start bringing that man out more, particularly in the bedroom. In gradual steps, and watching how she responds closely, start taking charge in there and learn to TAKE what you want out of the encounter. In other words, stop waiting for her to 'give' you what you want --> begin to DEMAND it. You might be pleasantly surprised at how well she responds to this approach. I know that I was.

My dilemma was that if I "take her", I am still doing all the work. Now I see making demands is part of the taking. Thanks for that insight.

In my case, my wife had to sit me down and literally ask me to stop making her orgasm the -centerpiece- of the sexual encounter.

No such conversation here, since I am all about the journey already, and she is the one that is O-focused. I may have to sit her down?

With regard to her not touching you -- you really do need to find a way to correct that. Deliberately take her hand and place it on you, guiding her and showing her what feels good to you. Another idea, and this may be VERY embarassing at first, but on one or two of those nights when you aren't going to ML, let her hold you (snuggle with you) while you masturbate, with the lights on, and let her see what you do for yourself. Women *DO* enjoy looking at you, touching you, playing with you, and pleasuring you, once they've gotten over their initial "Nice Girls Don't" resistance factor and have some notion what to do and how you like it. Oral pleasures can come later, but for now, you need to get her to take you in hand (or two) and pleasure YOU some too.

Both W and I are not really the type to get embarrassed, so that's no problem. She doesn't have any "nice girl's don't" resistance either. She just has the attitude that she is not interested, and therefore I should be happy with whatever I manage to get.

Bottom line: START being The Man in the bedroom, start taking charge and giving directions there -- for YOUR pleasure -- and stop letting her get away with the "chore sex" routine. And don't forget to -communicate- and talk about it, as uncomfortable as that is at first: she may tell you to be "happy with what you're getting," but you know that you AREN'T happy, and WHY --> tell her. I do know that this is hard to do, especially in the beginning phases of SSM recovery, but as everyone here recently reminded me, as the man, --> I <-- have to take charge and lead that recovery, else it ain't gonna happen, particularly with a naturally LD wife.

Having just recently reconciled with my WAW, I must admit I am hesitating to push her too hard. From your post I realize communication is still our big issue. We don't discuss sex, I don't tell her what I want, and I certainly don't demand satisfaction. She thinks if I come, her job is done.

Thanks for the reply B, I appreciate you helping me along.

SF

[Bagheera]

A question for you Spellfire:

You always seem to describe your W in rather selfish terms: outside of the bedroom, she wants to be provided for, cared for, and pandered to; inside of the bedroom, she focuses entirely on her own pleasure, and does nothing for you beyond 'offering a vagina' for you use.

And now that she is a recently returned WAW, there is the constant, unspoken threat that if you don't continue to cater to her, she'll leave again.

The question is: is my above description accurate, or skewed because this forum is where you come to vent? To what degree does SHE accept responsibility for the failures in your relationship, and what has she done about it?

-- B.

[spellfire]

It is hard for me to be objective. Inside the bedroom I would say that is accurate.

Outside the bedroom, she does a lot, so I do not really see it as "pampered princess syndrome". Her requests for acts of service are more cries for some of her extreme load to be reduced. In addition to working about 50 hours a week, she is in weekend school, has homework, handles the meals and provides transport for kid. I also do a lot, I handle everything else that must be done. We are very even in terms of chores/responsibilities. I think the thing that bothers me is that she sees what she does as being a load, but doesn't appreciate what I do just as much, if not slightly more. W has always been egocentric, and has trouble seeing things from others pov.

She has partially acknowledged her role in our R, but is still quick to place most of the blame on me. Her being willing to ML once a week is her way of trying to correct my primary complaint. She says as she gets used to it she will be more willing, she just can't go from 0 to 100 mph overnight. She is stubborn and has trouble seeing her own faults, but I am getting through to her better since I am being less confrontational in how I point things out to her. NMMNG helped me to identify manipulative behavior in myself and be more direct and honest.

Now that I have changed myself and my attitude, and I am much more positive in general, she is easier to be around. She is still extremely stressed out however. Finishing her classes will help a lot, but there is more that needs to happen. She was supposed to change jobs too, but since the economy is so bad, she is kind of trapped right now. Those external pressures make a big difference to her emotional state on a day to day basis. At least now when she vents to me, I actually listen instead of getting frustrated with her (an undersexed man doesn't really feel much like being there for their W, and the resentment is always bubbling right under the surface).

I feel like I am starting to ramble so...in conclusion. Inside the bedroom 95% yes. Outside, yes, but not nearly as much.

She is certainly a product of her family. My FIL is very NG, way more than I ever was. I think that dynamic has affected my R with her, we have had many arguments over her expectations of me compared to what she's used to.

[spellfire]

W has promised to "take care of me" tonight. This is a first I think. I have been anticipating it greatly. Now I am waiting to see if she remembers, and what exactly it entails.

For some reason I feel like I am going to be disappointed. I guess my job is to let go of the hope in case nothing happens? Is it bad to look forward to something like this, and then be disappointed when it doesnt happen?