Dinner was great! I actually managed to have everything ready at the same time, no small feat for me. And I just wrote a novel on Thinker's thread recapping my sitch and voting for confrontation of cheater. Honestly, after summarizing it for someone new, I cannot imagine still sharing the house with xBF trying to be "friend-ly but not friends." Blech.
Hey, that's MY line!!!! Although I prefer the "blccch" locution.
I must say, however, that I'm VERY impressed with the high-flying "double blech." You've forever raised the bar, Pearl.
On a more serious note, I did also find your BF's "no cover e-mail" rude, and I also think he's playing some games with you in not calling you back right away. Which is bothersome.
HOWEVER, I do think you need to factor one thing in this whole "should I Throw Him a Bone vs. Now is the Time I Make my Stand" debate we've had the last couple of days" (the one about skipping yoga). And that factor is: WITHDRAWAL.
If you don't know much about infidelity withdrawal, do some reading on it. It will better help you understand what you're asking him to go thru (and reasonably so!), and what his mood swings are going to be like over the next 2-3 weeks ("hard withdrawal"). TOTAL withdrawal will take up to six months or more.
Pearl, you KNOW I am as "take-a-hard-stand" as anyone on this entire Forum save for maybe Gooch. But I think you're going to have to cut your boyfriend a LITTLE slack during the next few weeks to account for what's going on physiologically with him if he has, in fact, ended all contact with OW.
Let me clarify however: this does NOT mean to need to compromise on ANY of your terms and conditions! It must means you may have to call him on his b.s. a few times, instead of taking the "He knows what I need; I'm not going to remind him of it again; it's up to him to show me if he can do it" stance of yours.
Puppy, sorry if I stole your line! You know imitation is the highest form of flattery. I also like another one I picked up from a mailing list: Pffft
To be honest, I have not done a whole lot of reading on infidelity withdrawl or anything else on the other side because I never thought I would need it for practical reasons. I just put it off for being too painful now, something to come back to in the future. So I'm still slogging through "Not Just Friends" and intend to finish it up by tomorrow.
Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
Let me clarify however: this does NOT mean to need to compromise on ANY of your terms and conditions! It must means you may have to call him on his b.s. a few times, instead of taking the "He knows what I need; I'm not going to remind him of it again; it's up to him to show me if he can do it" stance of yours.
Thank you for pointing out the difference here. That I can handle. And thanks to Amy also who basically made the same point to me in the alt. Not that I don't trust and value your opinion, I just understand it better in Puppy vernacular.
If you love somebody, set them free. http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g
{{{Pearl}}} Yeah..what Puppy is talking about is what I told you about a little bit back in the alt..about him going thru withdrawal and how he may be missing her, not that he's questioning his decision, but that it would be like if we had to stop talking, I would miss hearing about you..of course that is oversimplifying..but you know what I mean LOLOL!
SO glad your dinner went over well..it IS a nice "feat" when everything gets to be finished AT the same time..woohoo to you
Hugs to you..let us know how your day goes!
Tawnya
Me:39 H:40 D18/S12 M20/T21 Bomb 10/11/08 One Two Three Four
So what I wanted to know is what Gucci and Puppy and the other men here would think if faced with a "wooing" requirement. Here's where I'm coming from: I need to feel like he wants to win me. I know there are other men out there who would want to be with me so I need him to realize that and act accordingly.
I think you would get more from someone when you DO NOT make it a requirement.
The question is... How do you get what you need and want WITHOUT making it a requirement?
Let me give you an example of what I recommend you try as an approach before giving a requirement and a list.......(this example can be used with anything on your list of requirements.)
(Pearl to exBF).. "I want to take this slow with you exBF and I realize that we both have some major concerns. I realized that when we were apart that I want and need to be wooed. I want romance, I want fun, I want a man who is thoughtful. I want to be with a man who wants to be an "us". I want to feel like the man I am with WANTS me. I need to be honest here exBF, and I am not sure that is who you are, or the type of man you are. I realized that I didn't feel those things from you or get those things with you before. I will not settle for anything less this time. If "we" can't have that in our relationship, then I am not interested in seeing where this goes because I know I will not be happy. When I love a man I am willing to give him my all, but I am not going to do it with ANY man who can't seem to give those things back. I now know that there are men out there who want to do those things for their women. I just am not sure that is who you are. I don't feel right now that I am willing to give much to you because of those reasons. This is nothing against you for being who you are and I know that you have things you need too, but I just wanted to be honest and not give any false hope here. What do you think?"
AND then let him respond... He either will do the same things he has done in the past or he will get the "message" without it feeling like a "have to do it or else"...
I hope you see the difference. This shows him and tells him what you want and need, but gives no pressure to him because you are staying at arms length and admitting to him that you have seen no evidence of these things from him. Men usually like to solve problems. You have created one now. Hopefully he will respond as most men do.
Email may be a good idea. Wait for the timing to be right before you do this.
Quote:
I know Gucci just told all the men not to go out of their way to do things for their wives, but that's exactly what I want and expect from xBF. I don't want a wussy man, but I want someone who sees me as a prize and wants to beat out other competitors to win me over. I've heard all the talk, but honestly there has been minimal effort to show me that he is the best option for me.
Taken out of context. You are not the one who had an affair or wanted out. You are actually the "men" in the quote. You are the one who should be doing little. It is not only okay to go out of your way for someone you love, but it is a must for a great relationship. However, it is a big mistake to go out of your way to someone who doesn't want you or someone having an affair. (big differnce)
And thanks to Amy also who basically made the same point to me in the alt. Not that I don't trust and value your opinion, I just understand it better in Puppy vernacular.
No worries...Puppy and I do speak a little different language! But, I was trying to say something very similar. Glad he was able to word it better for you!
Hugs and good luck!! Amy
Me 39 H 36 S 7 S 4 T 15 M 12 H out 8/1/08 OW confirmed 8/6/08 D final on 6/12/09...I'm doing good!
(Pearl to exBF).. "I want to take this slow with you exBF and I realize that we both have some major concerns. I realized that when we were apart that I want and need to be wooed. I want romance, I want fun, I want a man who is thoughtful. I want to be with a man who wants to be an "us". I want to feel like the man I am with WANTS me. I need to be honest here exBF, and I am not sure that is who you are, or the type of man you are. I realized that I didn't feel those things from you or get those things with you before. I will not settle for anything less this time. If "we" can't have that in our relationship, then I am not interested in seeing where this goes because I know I will not be happy. When I love a man I am willing to give him my all, but I am not going to do it with ANY man who can't seem to give those things back. I now know that there are men out there who want to do those things for their women. I just am not sure that is who you are. I don't feel right now that I am willing to give much to you because of those reasons. This is nothing against you for being who you are and I know that you have things you need too, but I just wanted to be honest and not give any false hope here. What do you think?"
AND then let him respond... He either will do the same things he has done in the past or he will get the "message" without it feeling like a "have to do it or else"...
THAT, was phenomenal. I really like that approach, Pearl. It reminds me of a management technique I was taught, where instead of personally "attacking" a salesperson, say, for not generating enough new business, we were taught to position it as "The PERSON WHO SITS IN THAT CHAIR OVER THERE, WILL generate new business. THE PERSON WHO SITS IN THAT CHAIR, WILL be willing to knock on doors and do what it takes to do that. THE PERSON WHO SITS IN THAT CHAIR," . . . etc. "The only question Cheryl, is whether or not YOU are the person who's going to sit in that chair, and I'll leave that choice entirely up to you. Now, take the rest of the day off and come back tomorrow and you and I will sit down and talk first thing, and you can let me know what you think."
Something like that.
It's the principle of saying "This is what I (the company) need; but it's up to YOU to let me know if you are the one who can give it to me, because I will no longer settle."
It's also very similar to the distinction we try to make on here between "boundaries" (ME oriented) vs. "controlling" behavior (YOU oriented). "This is what I need in order to feel safe in the relationship," vs. "THESE ARE THE THINGS I NEED YOU TO DO FOR ME."
"boundaries" (ME oriented) vs. "controlling" behavior (YOU oriented). "This is what I need in order to feel safe in the relationship," vs. "THESE ARE THE THINGS I NEED YOU TO DO FOR ME."
That helps clarify the distinction in my mind better.
H40 (me) W34 (WAW) S6 T11 M10
Feb09: Need a break bomb Mar09: I moved to apartment to GAL, PMA, NMMNG Apr09: WAW 'dating' OM at work, positive around me lately.
You need to change your cellphone #, and give me a copy of the detailed bill every month!"
Boundary:
"I'm glad you want to reconcile, but in order for me to feel safe in the relationship, I need completely no-contact and transparency from you for awhile -- including changing your cellphone # and having your new bill sent to me for a period of time."
